GM CEO says company developing Saturn-branded plug-in hybrid

What about GM's misrepresentation? That fact that "Green Line" isn't actually green is quite misleading, or at a minimum too vague to be informative. Emissions related to smog are not reduced at all, but consumers certainly don't get that impression.

This "plug-in" announcement is the same thing, too vague. No pledge was actually given. Their true intentions are a complete mystery. When will they actually deliver something? How many will be available? And what will the fuel & emission benefits really be?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Nov 30 2006, 10:51 AM) [snapback]355759[/snapback]</div>

Wow... Wagoner might really have something wrong with him. He let that guy get the better of him and then ADMIT it on TV?

Frankly, I would have said something politically correct GM style, like GM IS working on improving fuel economy, but people still need big SUV's, blah, blah blah instead of spouting off about being twice his age and still able to thrash the guy.

I love how somehow this guy is implied to be unamerican... Wagoner actually believes it!

If Wagoner had brains, he would have talked to the guy on camera, and debated him successfully.

His comments were not wise, and show he is pretty thin skinned.

Nate

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ Nov 30 2006, 03:43 PM) [snapback]355992[/snapback]</div>

The guy in that interview was the OTHER honcho, not Wagoner himself. He was introduced in the opening, but I can't remember who he is. A bit misguided, eh?

 

Do you think my sign was too big?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Nov 30 2006, 05:13 PM) [snapback]356000[/snapback]</div>

That's better. For a minute I thought Wagoner was on the scary side. Whoever this guy is, he should shut up and address the issues.

Nate

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cheap! @ Nov 30 2006, 06:01 PM) [snapback]356020[/snapback]</div>

Was it really you?

Nate

 

i think Toyota is doing a lot more with the plug in then they are letting on. reducing smog or centralizing emission control efforts will only become more imminent as time goes on and i believe that the plug in hybrid is the best way to address this. gas mileage is nice, but that is only part of the story.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ Nov 30 2006, 07:23 PM) [snapback]356028[/snapback]</div>

No. But I did think the way they planed the stunt was cool. Also, the response to it was priceless. We are the general population and we know what we want. Someone will listen to the voice..."If you build it they will make you rich."

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Nov 30 2006, 06:47 PM) [snapback]355965[/snapback]</div>

Do us all a favor and sell your Prius already.

If for no other reason we won't have to hear you bitch anymore.

Replace it with the Saturn Aura and start fine tuning your internet forum skills............ because you're gonna need em.

 

Alternate viewpoint on this.

Question first: What if anything is Toyota annoucing/debuting at the LA Auto Show?

I actually am optimistic, for all of us, that GM is serious about getting into the game now that it realizes how the public perceives hybrids. OK they had to be dragged kicking and screaming but so what. Now if they are capable - and the dual mode seems like a capable system - why not? If it can jump the FE of a V6 VUE by 45% from mid 20's to low 30's good for them it's about as capable as the next Gen HH/400h. But again that's good for us.

Then to add the PHEV Saturn and trumpet the 70 mpg figure. The Next Gen Prius will be in that range also as will the diesel/hybrid announced for 2010. Well looking at the other news posts on the Home Page here there is a lot of battery technology seemingly on the verge of exploding to market.

Ahhh Toyota at the LA Show. Curious that Toyota is doing ... NOTHING!!!
- Either all it's efforts are directed toward the Tundra and the NAIAS ( good possibility ), or
- By a gentlemen's agreement this is GM's moment in the spot light ( my own belief ).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DeadPhish @ Dec 1 2006, 12:05 AM) [snapback]356109[/snapback]</div>

There's a minivan hybrid and a more efficient SUV hybrid on the way.

Toyota will deliver.

Lots of people will buy.

No hype about that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Dec 1 2006, 01:21 AM) [snapback]356112[/snapback]</div>

I know. Actually I was referring to this particular show in LA. I think they are allowing GM to shine and take center stage. Also in Detroit everything is about the Tundra. But there's the Sequoia, Highlander, Corolla, Sienna ( and TSH ) and it's dead silence on all of these.

 

Deadphish: I agree with you (And nice name). I believe there are gentlemen's agreements under the table from Toyota.
There is no reason for Toyota to have an EV button on all Priii, except in America. Why take the money and time to remove a feature for American bound cars? It's just a $2 button and the programming is all there. They don't save anything by doing so.
They let Ford get the Escape out before releasing the Highlander.
Maybe they will let GM get out a plug in first, before releasing theirs.
I'm not sure what they'd be getting out of it though. All I can surmise is that they know they can't make enough to satisfy the demand, so it doesn't matter when and how Toyota rolls out a PHEV. They could be last and still sell everyone they can make anyhow.
I also don't believe holdups in batteries are a technology holdup. I think it's an inability to make enough of them to satisfy the demand and do so in a cost effective way. Always the case with bleeding edge tech.

 

have to agree with John, a mini van hybrid well done will be nearly as hot as the Prius

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Nov 30 2006, 04:01 PM) [snapback]355900[/snapback]</div>

That makes me feel a bit better, thanks. The idea when I first bought the Prius was that I'd heard that it could be converted to electric and that I'd perhaps do it down the road when the car was out of warranty but $32,000 is too much. Being able to drive around without having to worry about gasoline is a dream of sorts so I'll keep on dreaming.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Dec 1 2006, 11:12 AM) [snapback]356323[/snapback]</div>

And what a wonderful dream it is. One that I've been able to live for the past six years. I have NO IDEA what gasoline costs except when I hear others bitch about it, or praise the big 15c drop. The few times/year that I need gas, I just go out and buy it. Simple as that.

If things continue on as they're shaping up right now, you may be able to live the dream as well. So many car makers - both big and small - finally have concrete, money-backed plans to bring EVs back to the table. It is a VERY exciting time for plug-in cars. And the amazing part to me is what a huge part the movie (WKTEC) played in all this.

My favorite right now is Tesla. Keep an eye on them in two years!

OK, back to GM's PHEV...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DeadPhish @ Dec 1 2006, 12:35 AM) [snapback]356114[/snapback]</div>

This may come as a surprise to you all, but all auto companies are companies that are about the bottom line. Toyota makes money on the Prius. However, full-sized pickups and SUV's are as profitable as luxury automobiles. Manufacturers make like $10K profit just on the invoice price charged to the dealer. There is a reason every mass market automaker wants into that market.

I'm no GM basher or Toyota lover, but I will say that the Big 2's trucks are a bit more fuel efficient than Toyota's by size. Midsized truck based SUV's are dead. So are minivans. Both got replaced by the crossover. Toyota will respond hard with their own crossover. They already have the Lexus RX that they can downsize to a car.

I for one will commend BMW, Daimler, GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota, Renault-Nissan, Volkswagen or any other automaker that reduces emissions and/or improves fuel economy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Nov 29 2006, 08:50 PM) [snapback]355493[/snapback]</div>

I notice it's not signed.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Nov 30 2006, 07:33 AM) [snapback]355624[/snapback]</div>

This is why I expect Toyota to make a Prius plug-in before GM is able to market anything.

Toyota doesn't 'break wind'. I don't see Toyota announcing stuff just for PR. If they announce there's a plug-in coming, then there's a plug-in coming and it's very close to the dealer's lot. And until it is, they're keeping their mouths shut.

I'm still hoping for a plug-in option for the 2009, despite what (the late) Dave Hermance said. If this GM announcement prods them to work harder, faster, better, then so be it. And if GMs announcement helps it come to pass, then I'll give GM credit for instigating the rapid availablility of the Toyota plug-in.

If the plug-in option is available in the 2009, I'll trade in my current Prius and buy a new one with the option. Even if it doesn't come in dark blue. If the plug-in won't be until the next remodel in.....2013? Then I'll keep my current Prius and wait for that model. But I want my next Prius to have plug-in. Eventually I expect to buy an EV Prius or whatever Toyota will call their EV model.

As for GM, they should just bite the bullet, pay Toyota to use some patents, hire some new engineers and just get the ball rolling. Even Ford is ahead of GM.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Nov 30 2006, 11:27 AM) [snapback]355690[/snapback]</div>

paraphrased:
Teachers strike for more responsibility, for more control in how the students are educated.

This is exactly what teachers fight for, but we're still vilified. Because we're in a Union, because we're "liberal", because a majority of us are registered Democrats.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Nov 30 2006, 09:56 PM) [snapback]356060[/snapback]</div>

So do I.

The immediate goal is an EV. To get there they developed the Prius. The next step is a plug-in. And so on. Instead of taking a giant leap, they go there step by step, and sell the steps as they go along. Brilliant. Because as the HSD comes down in price and battery technology leaps forward, they can make money and still keep the technology advancing.

This is what comes from having a vision and a long range plan.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DeadPhish @ Dec 1 2006, 01:05 AM) [snapback]356109[/snapback]</div>

At *this* Auto show? I have no idea.

This is not to say they have nothing to show.

Solar Hydro

Converted Prius

FT-HS