GM and others announce hybrid project

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 24 2006, 06:59 AM) [snapback]337284[/snapback]</div>

Take a look at the model years of Altimas I'm talking about (the big redesign happened w/the 02 model year). Almost all the dash plastics are very cheap feeling. They've been incrementally improving the interiors w/the 05+ model years and made some big changes in the 07 model year but I haven't sat in one of those yet.

I was considering the 02 Altima at the time I ended up buying an 02 Maxima. The Altima interior was total crap in comparison but I preferred the Altima exterior.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 24 2006, 11:49 PM) [snapback]337800[/snapback]</div>

I can relate to a certain degree. My last car was a Subaru. Talk about a manufacturer that doesn't disguise it primarily makes heavy equipment! Car was a freaking tank, and has taken some getting used to with the Prius..... But I love it now!

 

How about a technical discussion...

The BAS design eliminates the traditional starter by using the alternator as a dual-purpose device.

Normally, the alternator generates electricity for use by the engine, the computer modules, the front & rear lights, and various accessories, as well as recharge the battery. The energy source for that is the engine.

Now the reverse will happen at times, the alternator will be supplied with energy from the battery to provide power for the engine. This new ability enables an efficiency gain, but the method depends entirely on stored electricity. While the alternator is busy providing power, the battery feeds it in addition to what the alternator normally supplies. Won't that accelerate the aging of the battery?

The battery is just 3 traditional 12-volts wired together. Their typical life-expectancy is about 5 years for those of us that live in the northern & southern states. The increased use should shorten that. Replacement should be an expectation, just like when that very same 12-volt is used in a traditional vehicle. But the warranty is supposedly for 8 years / 100,000 miles. Is GM actually planning to provide that routine replacement?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Oct 25 2006, 01:42 PM) [snapback]338080[/snapback]</div>

That part is wildly incorrect. Care to point out where you found that tidbit? I read in a press release from the battery manufacturer that the battery is a series of modules that it's a series of modules and electronic modules that regulate charge/discharge.

More info here: http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/transportation/...V_Brochure.html

 

You know, regarding the mileage of the Aveo in particular, I purposely walk down the auto row in my town when I'm out for a stroll, and I can remember looking at the Aveo and the mileage. I remember being rather shocked that such a small car could get such poor mileage.

Think of Honda, and think of descriptors which come to mind:
--Quality
--Economy
--Efficiency

And then, if you look at the models they're selling, they all -- regardless of the sector in which they're competing -- tend to exhibit these qualities, if only relative to the direct competition.

Think of GM, and what comes to mind?
Honestly, I don't know.
--More bang for the buck?
--Edgy styling?
--Bling?
You tell me.

For the last 20 years now, it's been really difficult to characterize GM, the company, with any degree of certainty. And, with the lead times involved in bringing a new car to market, waffling just doesn't seem to me to be a desirable attribute.

That's why I just don't have confidence in GM, as I might once have had. Whether it's in the area of hybrid technology or anywhere else.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 25 2006, 12:52 PM) [snapback]338084[/snapback]</div>

Same question to you.

Where's the source that says the battery you refer to is what will actually be used?

My info is from last spring. All it vaguely said was the same 36-volt setup as what the "current hybrid" from GM uses. It was to support the low-cost design advantage argument. That could easily be outdated. But since you don't contribute until provoked and it's usually ambiguous, the assumption was all that was available. Clearly, that worked. Now let's look at those technical details.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Oct 25 2006, 02:33 PM) [snapback]338118[/snapback]</div>

Must I do everything for you John? It's almost like you've never heard of google.

http://www.ovonic.com/PDFs/news_events/pre...ease_010906.pdf

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Oct 25 2006, 01:33 PM) [snapback]338118[/snapback]</div>

I'm clueless...you're not saying the BAS uses *three* standard sized 12V batteries...? That's a lot of weight to haul around, isn't it?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 25 2006, 02:56 PM) [snapback]338140[/snapback]</div>

He was saying that. Luckily he's wrong.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 25 2006, 01:42 PM) [snapback]338128[/snapback]</div>

Expecting all 17,000+ members to individually do a search themselves, then find the correct and most recent data available is absolutely nuts. It's precisely as I stated, you don't volunteer any information... unlike virtually everyone else here. Of course, you are a victim of your own shortcomings. In other words, stop assuming.

No matter. It all boils down to the same problem anyway. If the real-world data is disappointing and/or they simply don't provide enough vehicles to satisfy demand, the technology is pointless.


Naturally, by "demand" I mean fulfilling of our goal to reduce dependence on oil and to reduce emissions... the true need, not marketing hype kind.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Oct 25 2006, 07:35 PM) [snapback]338322[/snapback]</div>

Dude, I can't volunteer information if I don't know what you want. First you make a wildly incorrect guess about the batteries, so I correct you by pointing you to the correct kind. How am I supposed to know you want a press release as well?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 25 2006, 07:28 PM) [snapback]338340[/snapback]</div>

PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHAT TO ASK.


It's that simple.

Remember, we had this identical exchange almost precisely a year ago? Provide a brain-dump. Others with contribute. The thread will grow into a collection of well researched information. That's how the formal documents came about.

Only a small number of members actually ask questions. Many are casual readers that only chime in on a rare occassion. Then there are countless other that stumble across various threads just by chance. Links and content are shared elsewhere too. Allowing misinformation to spread is a consequence to those that had the opportunity to prevent, but didn't. So you can't really complain afterward.

You have to be provactive.

 

You people are hilarious. I love all the automotive discrimination and intolerance. There's also a lot of skewing of facts in this thread. Nothing like a bunch of liberal snobs to make things comedic.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Oct 24 2006, 09:34 PM) [snapback]337758[/snapback]</div>

This is comedy gold! The SUPERCHARGED Cobalt SS is a sports car that currently beats the crap out of the Honda Civic Si in both straight-line performance and around a track. It is hardly a "pile of crap," and with the rattles I experienced in the Prius I had for a week and the fact that Toyota recalled more cars than they sold last year I wouldn't be talking if I were you. And for the information of those concerned with fuel economy, I know plenty of people that have this car and they all get high 20s city and low 30s highway.

As for the rest of the discussion, I'm not replying because there is just too much bullshit posted. It's like High School when a bunch of people gang-up on one or two and just scream insults to them. It's not worth my time anyways as you all seem to be naive about the auto industry and no matter what information is posted your minds, like closed gates, will not be changed.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Oct 25 2006, 10:26 PM) [snapback]338375[/snapback]</div>

This is all I have to say to you on this subject John. I don't know what to answer if you don't know what to ask.

I mean, come on now.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AndrewGS @ Oct 25 2006, 10:47 PM) [snapback]338386[/snapback]</div>

What on earth are you rambling about? Go back to your GM will one day be a decent company again forum, and let us be.

By the way your link is bogus. You don't own a Prius never have and never will. Don't pretend your something you're not.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Oct 25 2006, 10:48 PM) [snapback]338404[/snapback]</div>

What am I rambling about? The past three or so pages of this thread. I defend the Prius on GMI and I defend GM over here. I like both, what's so hard to comprehend here?

My link is bogus? Well, since I took the pictures and had the car from 5MI on the odometer to over 650MI and tested it out for a week I don't think so. I wanted to see if the Prius was hype or reality, I found that I really love the little cars and got 49MPG over the time I had it with the second tank at 50MPG. I'm still contemplating buying an '07 Touring PKG 3, but it's the common "Prius people" I run into on the internet and the Prius stigma that are keeping me from buying it. I will probably still end up buying one early next year.

Never assume.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AndrewGS @ Oct 26 2006, 12:29 AM) [snapback]338424[/snapback]</div>

Well regardless, the link isn't working. Says something about your gallery being offline.

If People on an internet forum are standing in the way of you buying this car, then I don't know what to tell you other then..... Surf the net a bit less.

Enjoy your 07 if you get it.

By the way, I have a bit of trouble beleiving that Toyota recalled more cars then they sold last year like you posted. I didn't check that number, but it just seems like more disinformation to me.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Oct 25 2006, 11:33 PM) [snapback]338429[/snapback]</div>

It looks like the photo galleries on this forum are down. Not anything I can control.

Thankyou, I'm sure I will.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 24 2006, 06:34 PM) [snapback]337734[/snapback]</div>

Ok, look at http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/10/03/023854.html and http://www.finanznachrichten.de/nachrichte...kel-7085335.asp and add up the sales of all the horrendously overweight gas guzzlers sold by each. Not surprisingly, GM has sold a hell of a lot more than Toyota has. To be fair, GM vehicle sales in the US are far higher than Toyotas.

I'd be including GM vehicles like the Tahoe, Yukon, H1-H3, Escalade, Surburban, Silverado, and Sierra.

Also look at GMs vs. Toyota's 2004 model year (last one available) CAFE #s at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/cafe/d...y-Pref-2004.pdf. Their numbers are still lower despite the E85 scam mileage inflation. See http://www.e85fuel.com/information/general_motors.php for list of vehicles and http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=2...mp;#entry338453 for what I mean about the scam. Toyota doesn't have any flex fuel vehicles to inflate any of their fleet numbers.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Oct 26 2006, 12:35 AM) [snapback]338429[/snapback]</div>

It's true. The millions of recalls on older models really hurt Toyota.

And the latest, which is a funny one, is the Scion Tc. Something about if you slam the doors really hard, the side airbags go off. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I'd die laughing if that happened to my car.