GM and others announce hybrid project

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sector99 @ Oct 23 2006, 11:08 AM) [snapback]336770[/snapback]</div>

Yep, and the Jews perpetrated 9/11, Osama is on the US' payroll so we can start wars and take countries for the oil and rape the women, UFOs make pit stops at Area 51 and Japanese cars only emit hugs, smiles and rainbows.

Grow up Dale Gribble.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IAO @ Oct 24 2006, 01:32 PM) [snapback]337404[/snapback]</div>

Right... notice anything in common about the cars you mention? They're about 10 years old.

For 2004 and for the price of the Prius, the interior is awful.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 24 2006, 01:58 PM) [snapback]337422[/snapback]</div>

My Mini was a 2004 that I paid 25,000. The interior was not exactly comfortable and you had to pay extra for an armrest. But then again im not the one that said the prius interior was the worst ever. I was just pointing out that there have ben far worse. If you would like to specify 2004 model year and higher in the price range of 20- 30k then we can talk about a little more specific things.

 

I will agree that 2004 and up in the same price range there are cars with much better interiors.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Aug 15 2006, 06:10 PM) [snapback]303793[/snapback]</div>

What GM is doing is hijacking the current meaning of the word 'hybrid' with as little engineering expense as possible. But they are willing to market the hell out of it...and confuse an already confused public in the process.

They're tainting the relative purity of the word 'hybrid' in the way that fun runs and charity fundraisers have tainted the word 'marathon.'

The public is always eager to ignore details...GM's BAS is a marketer's DREAM!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 24 2006, 04:25 PM) [snapback]337576[/snapback]</div>

Then you feel the same way about Honda's IMA? They do the same thing, you know...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Aug 14 2006, 11:25 PM) [snapback]303372[/snapback]</div>

Bingo. That's the crux of it, right there. Forget about balance shafts or how many units were manufactured. The real issue is about protecting the lifestyles of entitled Americans who can never, never even consider anything resembling self-sacrifice...and the oil companies who serve them.

Yes, GM is a different company than it was five years ago. And five years ago, it was a different company than five years before that. That's because they simply follow the prevailing wind. In this case: "hybrids are hot...hey, let's (say that we're going to) build some!"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 24 2006, 03:35 PM) [snapback]337585[/snapback]</div>

Well, I think it's safe to say that Honda's fleet has always been known to be somewhat more mileage oriented than GM's...and Honda isn't exactly going nuts marketing their hybrid models, either, are they?. Heck, I've heard some people even question their commitment to hybrids in general because of their low production numbers and design of the IMA vs. HSD.

I don't think that Honda is attempting to cloak themselves in green in the manner that GM is. Honda has always been about efficiency and they don't need to preach that lesson to anyone.

It's like, only the guilty need defend themselves.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 24 2006, 08:09 PM) [snapback]337701[/snapback]</div>

And Toyota is just as guilty you know. What happened to the Rav4? Oh, this year it's a 6cylinder and the mileage has gone down. Shame on Toyota.

GM is, dare I say it, more realistic. They're putting mild hybrids into small/midsized cars, and full hybrids into large cars and SUVs. Like edmunds said, they have a deluge of both mild and full hybrids coming out next year. Kudos to GM for changing their act and trying.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 24 2006, 07:09 PM) [snapback]337701[/snapback]</div>

Makes you wonder how many they will actually offer, eh?

The computer industry is quite familiar with vaporware, new innovative products that seem viable but never actually make it past the introduction stage.

I certainly hear a lot of hype (20% MPG improvement) about the BAS design, but it doesn't match what those actually involved are saying (10% to 15% MPG improvement). Of course, the claims are so vague anyway, it's almost pointless. They are likely just ideal condition estimates, just like what the EPA publishes.

The real-world numbers are what make the difference. Those we won't see for quite awhile. So it's lots of prevailing wind stuff in the meantime.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 24 2006, 07:39 PM) [snapback]337713[/snapback]</div>

Just as guilty? Um, I don't think so; this is an isolated example, considering the overall mpg of Toyota's fleet vs. GM's. Well, for GM's sake, they *can* truthfully say that they're more environmentally oriented than Ford.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 24 2006, 07:39 PM) [snapback]337713[/snapback]</div>

I'm wondering, how much does this 'deluge of hybrids' increase overall fleet mileage? GM is also responsible for putting some really inefficient vehicles on the road...moreso than Toyota or Honda. It's not only about numbers of units produced, it's also about how efficient each unit is in the big picture.

Yes, GM is trying, but I wouldn't exactly say that they're even close to leading the market in anything related to economy, efficiency, or environmentalism. Problem is, that's *not* the way they'd like to be perceived, and I think that's what raises the eyebrows of some General Motors detractors.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 24 2006, 08:59 PM) [snapback]337722[/snapback]</div>

You know Lexus has some grossly inefficient land yachts... I believe they have one that gets around 13MPG... which if it were a GM car, would be trotted out as an evil to end all evils on this board. But because it's Lexus, everyone just forgets about it.

Anyhow, I think what GM is doing with the BAS/2Mode dual approach is great. It's pushing hybrids at both ends of the spectrum. I really wish Toyota would bring their mild system over, instead of keeping it locked away in the Asian regions. I would imagine it'd be a lot more cost effective to produce a mild hybrid Corolla than a HSD corolla.

Speaking of which, which do you think will come first... a hybrid Toyota Corolla or Chevrolet Cobalt? If you answered Cobalt, you're right, as it's scheduled to receive the BAS system in 2008.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Oct 24 2006, 08:55 PM) [snapback]337721[/snapback]</div>

The FUDMeister returns! John, gotta say, missed your FUD the last few days.

It's interesting tho, you admit, that the Vue/BAS combo delivers a 20% improvement, according to those involved. Notice nobody from GM has said what the 10-15% improvement for the Aura will be *over*. V6? 4cylinder version from the G6 platform mate?

And if the GL Aura drives like the non-hybrid versions, maybe somebody is about to make a hybrid that doesn't wallow through corners.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 24 2006, 09:34 PM) [snapback]337734[/snapback]</div>

Good for GM! Currently their best rated Cobalt returns 29mpg while the Carolla returns 36. The Carolla is rated as a compact car, and the Cobalt a subcompact (smaller). So, factor in the "Hybrid" Cobalt doing 20% better, that brings it up to..... drumb roll..... 34.8 mpg. So essentially GM has pushed the envolope and will be giving us a car that is smaller then the Carolla and gets, well, almost as good a milage. Good stuff. Not since the Aveo have I been this impressed!

We really all should bow down to this type of cutting edge innovation and design!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Oct 24 2006, 10:12 PM) [snapback]337745[/snapback]</div>

Please don't lie, it's kinda pathetic.

The cobalt is rated at 25/34.

http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/chevrolet_c...l_overview.html

It's not *that* far off the Corolla.

But I can see where you got the 29 from... the supercharged SS version of the cobalt, the *worst* rated Cobalt, gets 29.

Edit: See, that's what gets me here... people go out of their way to bash GM, even to the point of making stuff up, but nobody mentions that Lexus just launched a new hybrid that gets 20/24. Now tell me, which is more worthy of development costs and production... a Lexus hybrid that gets 20/24 or a Cobalt that gets 33/40. Let's be honest.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 24 2006, 10:26 PM) [snapback]337754[/snapback]</div>

Now your really grasping at the perverbial GM straws..... Those numbers are for COMBINED mpg and are taken straight from Fueleconomy.gov Those are the COMBINED EPA ratings for the most fuel effecient versions of both vehicles. I took both 2006 models for comparison.

I beleive the "turbocharged" pile of crap you reference returned 26 mpg OVERALL. Worst then a 4 cylinder Camry or Accord. And it requires Premium fuel. Too funny.

You might want to get some of your buds from the GM boards to help you out here, because this is child's play!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Oct 24 2006, 10:34 PM) [snapback]337758[/snapback]</div>

Then I apologize... I didn't see you preverbially mention combined, did you?

I think it's funny how you seem to assume that I, with my massive 8 posts over in a single GM board, have buds and frequent the board.

Any comment on the Lexus hybrid?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 24 2006, 10:43 PM) [snapback]337763[/snapback]</div>

I've said it before and I'll say it again.... I'm not a fan of performance hybrids. I'm also not really a fan of Lexus or "luxury" manufactures in general. Just my personal perogotive though. I also find the Seqoia or whatever the hell it's called to be deplorable.

But all this is besides the real point. The Big 3 got fat and happy selling trucks and SUV's while the Japanese where counting beans with their sedans. But the world has changed. Now GM is trying to do something, anything as quickly as it can, but it isn't enough.

Why not introduce some fuel stingy Opel's, or Opel diesels here in the States? That would be more bold to me then a relatively week Hybrid Aura or Cobalt.

 

For instance, why is it that we get stuck with the godaweful Aveo, while the Europeans get the Corsa?

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/07/gm_opel_introdu.html

Between 41-51 mpg depending on gas vs diesel models.

No, instead we get the Freaking Aveo, which is actually smaller then the Corsa and returns a COMBINED 29mpg. Do they take us for idiots?

You see, that's the problem. They have and do take us for idiots and people are finally starting to wake up around here.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Oct 24 2006, 10:55 PM) [snapback]337768[/snapback]</div>

I agree with that. Saturn is supposed to be importing the Opel Astra next year, which is going to replace the Ion. They haven't said if they are, or are not, importing the diesel version.. I kinda hope they do. Just curious -- do you consider IMA to be weak as well?

Speaking of diesels, the Jetta TDI is set to return in '08, as a 50 state clean car. It's getting a nice boost in HP too, up to 140. No EPA numbers yet, but VW reps who are driving it claim it's close to 60 on the highway.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 24 2006, 11:19 PM) [snapback]337778[/snapback]</div>

Do I consider IMA to be weak as well? Yes.

But honda can get away with it because they have such a clean burning effecient gas engine. Their milage (which is the bottom line isn't it?) is excellent.

Problem with VW is well.... VW...... If you go the Jetta TDI route (I really suggest sitting in the back seats of that car before you buy it too) it's essentially only good for the warranty period. The repairs on VW's are just about as bas as any manufacturer.

Still don't understand why we get stuck with the Aveo.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Oct 24 2006, 11:42 PM) [snapback]337797[/snapback]</div>

I know all about VW and repairs... my last car was a Jetta. I had window issues, brake light issues, and other issues. But if I'm being honest, the car didn't cause me nearly as much drama as the Prius (which died twice). It also felt better at 50K miles than my Prius did new. So with VW, you trade off reliability for build quality. With my Prius, I didn't get either.