GM and others announce hybrid project

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 26 2006, 09:53 AM) [snapback]338545[/snapback]</div>

Toyota sells near 8 million cars per year. Please link where Toyota had 8 million recalls last year. Good luck with that. This goes back to spreading disinformation.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Oct 26 2006, 10:23 AM) [snapback]338562[/snapback]</div>

Not disinformation, but fact.

From Forbes (7/3/06)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AndrewGS @ Oct 25 2006, 10:47 PM) [snapback]338386[/snapback]</div>

Well, people that belong to a Prius chat board probably like Prius's. I just sort of don't really care about GM, which is strange, considering my first two cars were Chevies, and we were a GM family up until about 1990 or so. I'd like to see GM to come back, but it would take a lot to win back my business. I don't consider myself especially naive, buying a Prius was the most-researched car buy I've ever made.

If GM pushes your buttons, then go for it, but don't show up at something like a Ford BB or priuschat or a DC site and expect folks to bow to your superior wisdom. After all, us non-naive types know that a Pontiac Vibe is a great car!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cwerdna @ Oct 26 2006, 02:20 AM) [snapback]338465[/snapback]</div>

GM sells more gas guzzlers because they make the best. Toyota has no vehicle as capable as the Hummer H1 and they don't make heavy-duty trucks. Fact is, GM's V8 trucks and SUVs get better mileage and are cleaner than Toyota's comparable models. To be fair, Toyota sells quite a few gas guzzling variations of the Land Cruiser and HiLux around the world.

Also, there's no E85 mileage inflation scam. When running on E85 you get a pretty good drop in fuel economy since ethanol isn't as energy efficient as gasoline.

In the United States Toyota sold 2.2 million vehicles in 2005. For 2005 Toyota recalled 2.2 million vehicles in the United States.

Here's the thing, I like Priuses too. I'm not a closed-minded person and I don't stick with just one manufacturer or country of origin. GM, and all the American makes, make some of the best cars and trucks available, but there are too many people that talk bad about American cars when they haven't been near one since 1992.

Oh, and the Vibe isn't that great of a car. There's a reason Toyota builds the Matrix in a different plant.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AndrewGS @ Oct 26 2006, 11:08 AM) [snapback]338582[/snapback]</div>

Haven't been near one since 1992?

You need to read my post again. I gave up on GM around 1990, not American manufacturers. I've owned several Fords and a D-C since parting with GM. Hey, I understand how expensive things might break 3K out of warranty, but I'm not really wanting to take that gamble again with GM, especially given their F U attitude at the time. Maybe they are better now, but it would take something really innovative and interesting to get me back, and I'm just not seeing it, and apparently, neither are a lot of people. I'd pick an F-150 or Ranger over their GM equivalents. Mustang over Camaro, if the Camaro was still around. Ford GT over Corvette (that's not fair, the GT is double the price, I know). I had a G6 rental recently, not a bad car once you got past the exterior styling, fwiw, nice interior, big trunk, sporty feeling. But there's a reason GM felt the need to offer a 10 year powertrain warranty, though, and it's not because everyone thought their products were durable and long lasting.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AndrewGS @ Oct 26 2006, 11:08 AM) [snapback]338582[/snapback]</div>

Thanks for the link. So in 05 Toyota recalled 2.2 million cars to GM's 5 million and Ford's 6 million. Nice. So GM and Ford actually recall more cars then they sell........

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AndrewGS @ Oct 25 2006, 11:47 PM) [snapback]338386[/snapback]</div>

Yea, and comments like this really further the discussion along. The fact is that GM has pretty much scoffed at hybrids and tried to discredit them from the get go. Pardon me if I don't bend over backwards to give them the benefit of the doubt that GM really cares about hybrids with a few recent articles talking about how important hybrids are.

I believe that cwerdna was referring to the CAFE credits that manufacturers get for making E85 vehicles even if the vehicles never use E85. Like
This Story briefly talks about.

Sounds a lot like the stuff that malorn likes to spread around. Poor American manufacturers, if only people weren't so close-minded and they would be doing better. . Just because someone doesn't agree with your definition of what is a better car doesn't make them close-minded. I did have an American car until recently and doubt I will go for another. Maybe if I was looking for a truck or a sports car.


Added: Just for kicks I did a quick search for comparisons regarding this statement:

. I wonder why GM isn't making such a capable vehicle anymore? It appears that it's latest version (H3) is not quite so capable in comparisons. See the following vs. (Each has the H3 being beat out by the FJ Cruiser.)
Car and Driver

Motor Trend

SUV Talks

Perhaps not conclusive, but interesting. Even if both are a waste of money IMO.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AndrewGS @ Oct 26 2006, 08:08 AM) [snapback]338582[/snapback]</div>

Did you read the my post at http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=2...mp;#entry338453 and the links in it? I'm not talking about ethanol having less energy content == less mileage. I know that.

I was talking about what micheal was referring to w/the scam where flex fuel vehicles get counted as having grossly high mpg figures for CAFE purposes. One article stated that the Tahoe due to the gets counted as achieving 33 mpg for CAFE purposes due to the flex fuel credit.

Consumer Reports in the Oct 06 issue discussed the same and says "the government assumes that an FFV [flex fuel vehicle, one that can run on E85] will run on E85 half the time and gasoline the other half. For CAFE purposes, the E85 half is calculated as using only the 15 percent that is gasoline. So the govenrment rates FFVs at about 1.5 times the fuel economy that they actually get on gasoline, even though the thast majority may not be run on E85 at all. A two-wheel-drive version of our 2007 Tahoe, for example would normally be rated for CAFE purposes at 21 mpg. But because it's built to run on E85, it's rated at 35 mpg instead."

THAT's inflation, esp. when it's virtually unavailable (for instance, in the whole state of CA, there's 1 publicly accessible E85 station per http://www.e85refueling.com/locations.php?...e=CACalifornia) and due to the lower mileage, it makes little economic sense to buy it.

The flex fuel vehicles each automaker sells would help to inflate a maker's CAFE #s for the respective fleets they fall in (imported passenger cars, domestic passenger cars, and light trucks). Toyota has none and therefore no inflation from this (yet).

BTW, as micheal briefly mentioned, the H1 is being discontinued. See http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/12/...D8HIGLP81.shtml.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Aug 11 2006, 04:21 PM) [snapback]301761[/snapback]</div>

That's still true now in late October. In fact, you've been dead quiet about this for the last two days... since I revealed the fact that Vue-Hybrid is actually quite a bit dirtier.

LEV is nothing to be proud of. In fact, it is totally inappropriate to use a label like "green line" for a hybrid that's not even as clean as common, everyday vehicles like Corolla.

Thankfully, this battle is over. That hybrid system (BAS) will in no way compete directly with Toyota's design or any of the upcoming vehicles using GM's other hybrid system (Two-Mode). It offers a few MPG more, but that's it.