GM Aims For 1,000 Chevrolet Volts On Road Before 2010

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ruaqt @ Jun 27 2007, 11:51 PM) [snapback]469231[/snapback]</div>

You missed the point.

Why only 1,000 ?

That is strangely low, too few to even cause a wrinkle in the first place or to get any worthwhile customer-generated data from. Something like 20,000 makes more sense, especially considering that fact that with only 1,000 each dealer may only get 2 or 3 to sell. In other words, telling us about the 1,000 has little meaning.

We want to know how many will be produced the first full year of production.

After all, judging MPG is never appropriate by a certain date either. You must always consider an entire year for proper measure.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jun 28 2007, 08:42 AM) [snapback]469308[/snapback]</div>

Just for reference... 1000 is more than the number of RAV4 EVs that Toyota made in the first 5 years of production and is 2/3rds of the total production of RAV4 EVs in 7 1/2 years.

Personally, I believe this first 1000 will be prototypes leased to large fleets such as cities and power companies, who will put many miles on them and shake out the bugs. I doubt they will be available to consumers. The article simply said "on the road". It did not say "sold to consumers" (or even "leased to consumers"). In software terms, it would be a "Beta Release".

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Jun 28 2007, 09:26 AM) [snapback]469335[/snapback]</div>

Years ago when my kids were only 7 & 10 respectively, one would punch the other. “ouch! He hit me !!†What was their excuse? “She hit me tooâ€. We’re not beyond hearing the excuse, as someone says, “GM is bad because blah bhah blahâ€. The excuse? Toyota is bad too. They stopped making thier ev's ... they say they need time to develope batteries, etc etc. So remember … as long as Toyota is anything less than the perfection of Christ, one ought to not speak anything critical of GM.

Personally the first 1000 as prototypes smacks of the 1990's and the EV1. Limited production. Leasing. Leaving an excuse to say, "no one wanted them ... we tried". Meanwhile, the Ebox with a one year warranty is rolling of the aftermarket shelves ... with a 150 mile pure electric range ... even as we ponder all this:

http://www.acpropulsion.com/ebox/pricing.htm

Funny how THEY can do it, but GM and their millions in resources can't do it. OH! I better say Toyota too, or else that will give GM an out

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Jun 28 2007, 09:48 AM) [snapback]469474[/snapback]</div>

~$70k including the cost of a donor car. And to the best of my knowledge they've only managed to deliver the one to Tom Hanks so far. So I'm not sure I'd personally qualify that as a resounding success. Perhaps as a step in the right direction, but a baby step none-the-less.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mwalsh @ Jun 28 2007, 01:15 PM) [snapback]469490[/snapback]</div>

Our neighbor, maybe 10 doors down from us has one. That's how I found out about them. But point taken with the price being pricy for the faint of heart. So yea that will cause less buyers. Regarding price? Errr, actually, 55K + 13 for the donar car (Though a salvage yard will sell you one for 1/2 that). Not wanting the point to be lost, it IS do-able even now ... even for a mear start up company ... and doable with 3 times the so called "problamatic range".

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Jun 28 2007, 01:28 PM) [snapback]469540[/snapback]</div>

I'm sure each one is done by hand by just a few guys. Possibly in their spare time. And of course, each installation is unique to whatever donor car is supplied.

Now if you standardized a lot of that and did it more assembly line like cars are really manufacturered I'm sure the cost would come way down and production would increase dramatically.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Jun 28 2007, 11:28 AM) [snapback]469540[/snapback]</div>

Not meaning to split hairs in the slightest, but $55k + $13k is pretty much ~$70k. Use of the tilde can (and in fact does in this instance) mean "approximately equal to".

And from my own inquiries $13k would seem to be the lower end of the used xB market, unless going to a salvage vehicle as you mention (not something I would personally do if I were able/needing to spend another $55k on it). Although you might get lucky and find one with a blown motor rather than a wreck, or even be able to offset the $13k+ purchase of a decent one by selling the surplus running gear from it.

But regardless, the conversion is still too rich for this (essentially) middle-class patriarch!

Now Miles Automotive, with their Javlon EVs and projected price tags of ~$30k...... well that's right up my alley! Although I'm somewhat wary of Chinese manufacturing (I sort of picture them where the Japanese were in the early 1960s or where the Koreans were in the early 1980s), I generally like the looks of the Hafei Sai Bao basis for the SX500, even though it is kind of boring that they seem to have decided on the three + year old Mk. III platform (though they could end up using the Mk. V platform instead!).

Even the Phoenix SUT/SUV based on the Ssangyong Actyon would be fine. Although once you start to creep into >$40k territory, you start to get a little beyond my means for a basic commuter car.

This is my biggest concern with the Volt. That if we do get it, prices will escalate enough to push it into "well-off man's toy" territory, like so many of the other potential offerings out there.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jun 28 2007, 11:54 AM) [snapback]469570[/snapback]</div>

The eBox is only built on a Scion xB donor, so from that perspective the production steps should be pretty much chisled in stone. However, I'm fully willing to accept that these are probably "hand-built" by a small team. More's the pity really because volume would probably mean lower prices.

The same holds true with the Prius PEHV conversions, which is also why we're not seeing them all over the place. I still think the best bet anyone here has of getting one is to take your car to an alternative fuels convention and get (force?) Cal-Cars to do it as a presentation!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jun 28 2007, 07:42 AM) [snapback]469308[/snapback]</div>

The 1,000 would be the LPB or Limited Production Build. My company does this to insure that all of the production parts actually fit as planned, that the tooling for the assembly line is ready, and that the workers are trained how to assembly the product.

I would guess as other have said that either these will go to fleets, most likely utility companies, or to one region only, most likely California. These first vehicle will be used to "field test" a large number of vehicles and allow the general public access to the vehicle. Often the public uses a product in ways that the designers never intended or imagined.

I'm very pleased that GM has announced any production and 1,000 is very promising. 1,000 is more that what is practical to do with prototype parts just from a cost standpoint. If they are going to build 1,000 they will have to build production tooling which means they will build more.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Jun 27 2007, 03:10 PM) [snapback]468972[/snapback]</div>

To sum up my logic: Toyota has a history of building what they say they're going to build. GM has in the past sometimes not followed thru with what they say they're going to do. Toyota makes us believe that they're sincere in building high mileage, low emission vehicles by their actions. GM has a image of not caring about anything but short term profits and SUV's. I guess I've been waiting for the excuses to start coming as to why this isn't really going to happen in earnst from GM. I really believe that the U.S. mfg's really don't care about anything but themselves at this point. We all know, the big three could make this happen if they had the will. Let's hope that GM makes my "logic" a bunch of nonsense. I'm betting on Toyota. GM has alot more to worry about then just Toyota too. And by the way, we don't know what Toyota will have in their line up in 2010 until they do it. Toyota wants their competition to underestimate them.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Jun 26 2007, 09:16 AM) [snapback]468318[/snapback]</div>

Not even impressive if it is the Fuel Cell version... because five years ago, GM promised 1 MILLION Fuel Cell cars by 2010.

Yes, of course. So could Toyota, Honda... any of the bigs. GM pu the EV1 on the road in EV1 in 1996. I'd imagine that 14 years later they could probably do it again...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Jun 27 2007, 10:17 AM) [snapback]468879[/snapback]</div>

Everybody is serious about it. Not everybody is talking about it. And the ONLY thing that counts is who brings the product to the table.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clett @ Jun 27 2007, 10:34 AM) [snapback]468893[/snapback]</div>

You can take that to the bank.

 

I get it! The headline of this thread is incomplete - what was meant to say was "GM Aims for 1,000 press releases about the Volt before 2010."

 

Perhaps GM should be aiming for actually getting the Volt available for sale to begin with. Then, they can aim for selling 1000 of them.

 

Toyota made there EV's for the same reason GM made the EV1, as a reactionary measure to the CARB mandates. Toyota made the Prius as a strategic initiative.

Now what is really unknown, is if the Volt is a strategic GM decision or a reactionary GM response. Or to restate the question, how much money is the GM board of directors willing to sink into the Volt before bailing? One small indicator is GM getting TWO battery suppliers lined up. This is an expensive thing to do in the short term, but allows for payoffs in production. This is smart. Another small indicator is the big leap to a full Plug-In hybrid. This is smart as well.....BUT....the past history of GM strongly indicates a board of directors that bails at the first sign of adversity.

GM is not where to be looking anyway. Tesla Motors is thinking big, planning big, executing well, and focusing on the real goal. A company that has been VERY similar has been Eclipse Aviation. If both these companies are new to you, go do some homework. Neither one followed a stategy of starting small, both are committed to coming out of the blocks at full speed with dramatically new technology. Eclipse is already out of the starting blocks and Tesla is just about there.

 

If GM was really serious about building the Volt, they would already have started building them, and have them ready for sale by the end of 2008. Just more of the same ole stuff...no wonder they are having a tuff time.

Happy Motoring!

 

I predict that the 1000 th Volt will roll off the assembly line the same day as Toyota's 10,000,000 th Hybrid.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Jun 27 2007, 01:17 PM) [snapback]468879[/snapback]</div>

Toyota never SAID they were serious about PHEV's. There in lies the beauty of Toyota. Hind sight too. is a beautiful thing. Toyota doesn't set phoney dates like GM. Toyodt never did SAY what they will do. THEY simply DO. How many plugin Priuses has Toyota said they'll do? Zero you say? I guess 'saying' what Toyota will do doesn't mater. Lo and behold, even as GM blathers on about what GM will do, maybe by 2010 ... Toyota just DOES it. The naysayers state, "well, Toyota's just as bad as GM because they aren't even anouncing if they'll have PHEV's by 2010" .... yet Toyota goes head long ... saying nothing ... but begins producing 8 mile range PHEV Priuses, for open road testing (which means they've done their secret track testing long ago), and the closest one to us that Toyota is releasing will be at UCI ... just 6 miles away.

Way to go Toyota! Hold your cards close to your chest, and just do it. Yep ... even as GM PR's their self to death. Toyota (how'd you put it Marlin? Those Bastards?) was secretly building, crash testing, and now releasing the Plug in. So, Toyota, without announcing when, appears to be doing it in '07. Yet GM had to have a bunch of their people PUSH their Volt mock up out of the drive way a few months ago. GM exec's must really be wringing their hands.

 

well i guess we will see. although gm announced their plug-in... stats and all. i still bet on Toyota to put one out first.

its like the Supercar fund. Toyota asked to be included when the "big" 3 were asked by the clinton administration to develop a 5 passenger car that got 80 mpg.

but the "big" 3 said no. that this was strictly an American thing. well they developed a car that came pretty close to meeting the objectives of the project. that was a decade ago. granted, there would be work needed to be done to provide an end user product, but the seed of a potentially industry changing (and savior for the "big" 3) vehicle was definitely there.

as we all know, as soon as CAFE was watered down, they abandoned the project, Toyota introduced the Prius and the term "big 3" has come to mean less and less every day since.

you all can eagerly await the chevy if you like. i will bet on Toyota to be first and better. there is something impressive about a company that ONLY toots its horn by quietly providing what i need.

 

The big three can only see quarter to quarter. We'll be lucky to ever see a Volt and if we do it will be some bandaid PR machine. GM should just come out and admit they hate the idea of hybrids like they did years ago. I really believe a real hybid is out of their league, they should be creative and do a bunch of diesels. Right up their ally, they pollute and use petrol. They could make them get real crappy fuel economy (like the Jeep Liberty) show us that there's no way to get high mileage vehicles. The 1000 hp Caddy is their mind set, they just have to hide it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Topgas @ Jul 28 2007, 06:15 PM) [snapback]486805[/snapback]</div>

One manufacturer only sells its hybrid in the CARB states. Let GM go diesel and there will be 8 states they can't sell in.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimN @ Jul 28 2007, 07:58 PM) [snapback]486839[/snapback]</div>

And GM will say: see we tried the high mileage deal and it didn't work, those left wing enviro wacko's stop us from selling in 8 states. Actually they have the technology right now but it's just too expensive...........the Caddy wasn't though.