Gen 4 Staff Manual (In Japanese) =/ Specs/Design/Other Info

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by E46Prius, Sep 23, 2015.

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  1. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    beats me how "pretty obvious" it could be: car is not out yet. The only thing is obvious at this point that they made it cheaper. How do we know that? They say so. Oh wait they also said it will be lighter.
     
    #241 cyclopathic, Oct 11, 2015
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    but not 20% lighter, just a goal. and cheaper does not necessarily mean msrp.
     
    #242 bisco, Oct 11, 2015
  3. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    so 20% lighter and cheaper = heavier and more expensive in Toyota talk, right? (you should have seen what we got first!)

    Do you know the history of 20%? Toyota used to issue 10% buttons to employees (they might still?), symbolizing that every employee must strive to improve Toyota by 10%. 20% = twice as nice.

    You are absolutely right they never said 20% all of Gen4, so I'll bet there is one part on Gen4 which is 20% lighter, and another one which is 20% cheaper.
     
    #243 cyclopathic, Oct 11, 2015
  4. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Nothing can compare to the Mitsubishi Mirage!
     
    #244 giora, Oct 11, 2015
  5. Alesf76

    Alesf76 Member

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    I don't remember an official statement from Toyota saying that the GenIV Prius would be lighter.
    They always stated that the TNGA base would be lighter, but unless you drive Flinstone's car, you need to add other pieces to drive it: it doesn't mean you automatically obtain a lighter car. That someone reading tomatoes wrote about potatoes and speculated that all the car would be lighter, well that would not be the first time that speculations are wrong. Toyota may have choosen to use the saved weight to improve other aspects that we will not be sure about until we see all the specs: better suspension, maybe better safety (Gen3 lacks a bit in some crash tests), maybe better insulation, maybe they also used a standard (and heavier) battery this time, maybe we have to wait until the 27th ;)
     
    #245 Alesf76, Oct 11, 2015
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    except the diamante.;)
     
    #246 bisco, Oct 11, 2015
  7. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    once again, they never said anything about Prius weight being 20% less ... they were talking about TNGA, which is their new platform that will likely be on 30+ vehicles by the end of the decade. They never mentioned Prius being lighter at all or cheaper... Just like they didnt say it will be produced in the USA... I suggest you dont believe everything you read on the internet, especially on blogs.

    They also never said that TNGA vehicles will be cheaper to the end customer, but that it will be cheaper to Toyota and that they will invest 60% (i think) of the savings into better equipment and more advanced engines.
     
    #247 spwolf, Oct 11, 2015
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  8. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    we already know about more sophisticated suspension, more (base) equipment, quieter/better interior...
     
    #248 spwolf, Oct 11, 2015
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  9. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Or you know, the actual fact that the steel rims were heavier than the lightweight 15" alloys.

    Again, you're going from a larger alloy wheel to a smaller steel rim. It's possible that they're close in weight because the larger alloy has more material than the small steel rim . I'm going from a lighter wheel to a heavier wheel of the same size.

    There is a difference in the steering setup between the 15" and 17" models in both the US and Canada. It was stated by Prius Team back in 2009.

    Was it really that bad? We never got the Diamante in Canada. We got the Galant as the largest sedan but by the time Mitsubishi came to Canada in 2003, the Galant was bloated and uninspiring. I do remember the Galant from the mid 90s and I thought it was cool.
     
    #249 Tideland Prius, Oct 11, 2015
  10. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    And how do you know that? Read on internet in some blog? Someone suggested you shouldn't trust such sources.
     
    #250 cyclopathic, Oct 11, 2015
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    never drove one, i don't think they sold that many. not sure why mitsi never really caught on.
     
    #251 bisco, Oct 11, 2015
  12. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Just to update with the official press release

    Engine Type In-line 4 DOHC
    Displacement 1,797 cc
    Maximum output 72 kW [98 PS] / 5,200 rpm
    Maximum torque 142 N･m [14.5 kgf･m] / 3,600 rpm
    Motor Maximum output 53 kW [72 PS]
    Maximum torque 163 N･m [16.6 kgf･m]

    Under the Hood of the All-new Toyota Prius | TOYOTA Global Newsroom

    So it looks like the engine lost 1 kW of power and torque is the same but available at a lower rpm
     
    #252 Tideland Prius, Oct 13, 2015
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  13. chinna

    chinna Member

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    But it seems Motor lost quite a bit of power. Current Gen 3 is
    80HP(60KW)
    153lb-ft(207Nm)

    That considerable loss of torque and power from electric Motor, 15% lower power and almost 25% less Torque (Engine is fine).
    Based on specs from Japan manual, it seems weight is same between Gen 3 and 2016 model. May be 50lb atmost.

    Now, I am worried. Hope it does not turn out to be dog slow.
     
    #253 chinna, Oct 13, 2015
  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Are you talking about Gen 2 to Gen 3? The Gen 2 didn't have a reduction gear so it had a lot of torque from the electric motor (295lb-ft @ 0-1,200rpm). The Gen 3 had a reduction gear to act as a torque multiplier so Toyota was free to use a smaller, more tightly wound motor to save weight and packaging space. The Gen 3's engine was also tuned for a bit more torque and power to better compete with diesels on the highway. (70mph+)
     
    #254 Tideland Prius, Oct 13, 2015
  15. chinna

    chinna Member

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    Those figures are for Gen 3, directly from Toyota website for 2015 Prius.

    Toyota Prius Interior, Exterior & Safety Features
     
    #255 chinna, Oct 13, 2015
  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Oh Gen 3 to Gen 4. Yeah 153lb-ft to 120lb-ft is quite the drop (again, not as much as the 295lb-ft to 153lb-ft from Gen 2 to Gen 3). It's possible the parallel gear setup is able to do more torque multiplication than the reduction gear in the Gen 3. In the Gen 3, the reduction gear multiplied torque at approximately 2.5x. If the parallel gear can multiple torque even higher than that, then you don't need as powerful a motor.
     
    #256 Tideland Prius, Oct 13, 2015
  17. DtEW

    DtEW Active Member

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    For consideration:

    Gen 1 Prius:
    Peak MG2 output = 44 hp (33 kW)
    Peak torque = 258 lb.-ft. (350 Nm)

    Gen 2 Prius:

    Peak MG2 output = 67 hp (50 kW)
    Peak torque = 295 lb.-ft. (400 Nm)

    Gen 3 Prius:

    Peak MG2 output = 80 hp (60 kW)
    Peak torque = 153 lb.-ft. (207 Nm)

    Gen 4 Prius:

    Peak MG2 output = 71 hp (53 kW)
    Peak torque = 120 lb.-ft. (163 Nm)
     
    #257 DtEW, Oct 13, 2015
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  18. DtEW

    DtEW Active Member

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    Torque can be multiplied via gearing, but horsepower stays the same regardless of gearing.
     
    #258 DtEW, Oct 13, 2015
  19. chinna

    chinna Member

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    Yes, the reduction factor might help multiply the torque at lower speed, but that does not account for HP.

    Assuming that is the case here, HP should have stayed same, but HP has been lowered too, unlike Gen 3, where HP actually increased despite lower torque. That indicates that Gen 3 motor can reach considerably higher speeds than Gen 2 despite half the torque.

    But Gen 4, seems lost Torque, and HP. Means Torque lowered, but it is not compensated by high RPM.

    That is the reason I am suspecting this is going to be slow. I was hoping sub 9 sec 0-60 for Gen 4, been holding off replacement my Gen 2.
     
    #259 chinna, Oct 13, 2015
  20. chinna

    chinna Member

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    Thanks for complete comparison data! This is really helpful in getting the comparative perspective.
     
    #260 chinna, Oct 13, 2015
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