Gen 4 Prius Delayed Until Late 2015 | Plug-in Late 2016

It's like nothing was learned from the past...

You can't base the need for sustained sales on short-term incentives.

 

True, however you certainly can use short term incentives to help new technology get a foothold.
Or.... to compete against other well established technologies that are also getting incentives.

 

Attempting to apply decisions made 2.5 years ago to the much changed market today as if they were the same isn't constructive.

Making it sound like a double-standard or hypocritical is what?

Sorry, reality is that lessons have been learned and adjustments need to be made. Fortunately, flexibility is something Toyota planned for.

 

Spot on. That sub-$20k price point is HUGE to get people into a hybrid.

I was initially going to buy a Mazda CX-5 as my minivan was getting too high up on miles. Since I had a leased Honda Civic at the time, I took a look at the Honda Insight since I realized I could actually save a ton of money with a hybrid. I figured it would be a good idea to test drive the Prius C while I was at it since it would only cost me a little more (but still had a sticker price under $20k). After test driving each, the Insight was a joke and I got the Prius C.

Later I got a Mustang Convertible thinking it would be a fun ride for a weekend car since I needed a third car in the family, but ended up trading it in a year later for my Prius Plug-in, and couldn't be happier as a 2-Prius family. I would have never considered a $30k hybrid (much less a plug-in one) had I not gotten into the hybrid game with my first sub-$20k Prius C (although I'll admit the HOV stickers helped too), and find myself enjoying the PiP significantly more than the convertible.

However, at this point, my next car will be a full electric, and if Toyota is stuck playing with the FCV stuff in time I will likely jump ship to Nissan/Tesla. I love the Ford Focus EV, but I would never actually consider buying a compliance car. I think the market will change significantly in a few years so it should be interesting to watch the nex gen plug-ins come out. Don't they actually have to sell the cars in order to get ZEV credits? So if no one buys the FCV then they get no credits?

This is a legitimate concern for those of us with long distance commutes. At 45 miles each way, with no work charging available, I would be screwed if my range falls below 89 miles. Even with gen 2 Leaf having "150 miles", if it's "150" exaggerated it might not even work out for me. Hopefully they come out with true 150 miles, not inflated "150 miles", but it's unlikely. Time will tell.

 

Like I said, you thrive on debates.

You also leave out detail, like what how I said those subsides should be used... calling it a "subsidy thing" to stimulate a response. I'm not taking the bait though.

 

John, you make vague declarations and then cry 'foul' when people leave out detail.
Here is what you said...

So just what did you mean? What lesson is it that wasn't learned from the past?

Do you disagree that incentives, short term or not, would help sales and therefore dealers as Austin said?

 

Then I get accused of bringing back up the already concluded topic when asked to post detail again. Like I said, it's the debate and I'm not interested.

Fact is, the plans & goals have been stated.

 

Does this forum have a filter? I already programmed in my head of 'Toyota Cult follower'. Nothing to read, next.

I came here to chat and be informed. Not brainwashed.

 

Use the IGNORE feature. It works well for most of the filtering for browser interfacing. Apps like Tapatalk don't offer options like that though.

Fortunately, the banter like we're seeing now doesn't last long. It's the regular result of a next step having taken place... in this case, some predictions having been confirmed.

For my part in that, I'm sorry and have turned on ignore too. Those restirring of old debates are pointless.

 

So you state people have not learned from the past without stating what that lesson is, then refer to predictions being confirmed, again without stating what those were??

John, I think you have some interesting ideas, however you make it difficult to discuss those ideas because you make us guess what the specifics are.

 

Discussions with him in the past have been stimulating and educational. Now I think he might be suffering from PTSD after spending too much time in Volt fanboi lairs.

If Toyota doesn't expand PPI sales to other states after this announcement of the next generation not coming for at least 2 years, I will take it for more confirmation that Toyota wants nothing to do with a plug.

 

If I converted our two Prius, 2003 and 2010, into Toyota stock, I would be a lot more interested. <grins>

Opinions about the market are easy. Facts and data, a little harder to come by.

Bob Wilson

 

How can that be ?!? Marketing just revealed those cutsie PiP ads. Ok, it's not the hundreds of millions spent on the hydrogen lobby - but I know that I for one certainly feel mollified.

.

 

Facts & Data can be painful to accept, which is how all the spin comes about. The cold hard reality of what the competition is and who the audience is has become an endless source of rhetoric. Scope is arbitrarily just cherry-picked. Basic principles of business are just swept aside too. It never ceases to amaze me how things like affordability are so easily dismissed.

Fortunately, it's easy enough to see past all that... once you start seeking out the facts & data.

Interestingly, we're seeing a pattern now. Toyota waits for the competition to complete their rollout before making a move. It avoids getting caught up in any fallout. And this particular stage, what a payoff! They were able to stay clear of the many troubles with Volt and the rating problems with Ford. There's a fresh canvas now for them to paint a picture of what a well-balanced plug-in hybrid has to offer.

 

I agree, it is safer to follow.
However Toyota was bold enough to go first 15 years ago. It is one of the reasons we were so happy to give them our family's business.
They are now following, which is the reason other companies are getting our business.

We are disappointed by this, however I do understand that the mainstream market is a larger market than the early adopter market. I just hope they can grab more of that market.

 

Well I guess it's time to come clean..... john1701a is my other userid.