Gasbuddy Poll: "Would you consider an electric or hybrid for your next vehicle?"

If saving fuel costs up front is the way to go - the airline industry would still be flying older REV's of the 747's ... when in fact, they spend 100's of millions for new fleets. FedEx legacy fleet flying from china would have to refuel before reaching their hub in Nashville. The new generation are more fuel efficient ... enough so that they make it as a direct flight. Same with a bunch of the trucks now days. What really counts ... if you're looking a a pure fuel cost savings is how long you use it. If you're going to strictly consider fuel, and buy another car in just a couple years, then you might as well buy a teeny Kia. But - that's not the real world when it comes to the car buyers' choice.
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As you point out, it is how long you use it. Shipping trucks rack up hundreds of thousands more miles than a family car does before hit their end of life. Airframes can be in service for 30 years. These more efficient planes and trucks are going to earn their way long before the company gets rid of them. On the other hand, if a new car buyer is trading in every 5 years, or leasing for just 3, the upfront costs for fuel efficiency may not be worth it.

Of course, fuel cost is just one consideration for a car purchase, and there are reasons beyond lower fuel costs for choosing a hybrid.

 

But you can't really compare the two. The Prius is a mid sized family sedan and the fiesta is a sub compact. Also have you tried passing at freeway speed in both cars? The gen II prius MG2 puts out 295 ftlbs of torque which is limited low speeds by software otherwise it would be very undriveable, but passing from 70 to 90, it pulls the same gs as your 1995 SC400 does from 70 to 90. Those that own gen II prius (can't speak of gen III but I assume they're faster) know just how good the passing speed is of a prius. Much faster than the official hp rating.

Also, if you do mostly in town stop and go driving, then there isn't even a fuel economy comparison. In town driving, the Fiesta get's 32 MPG while the Prius climbs up to 55 MPG.

If you compare TCO, then the gap widens. There's just a lot less to do on a Prius maintenance. We have 170K on our 2009 and the brake pads are still at 80%. They will never have to be replaced. There are no belts to replace. There's just a lot less you have to do or spend.

 

This is TH's SOP.

Note also that while he is claiming to show the 45 mpg-highway Fiesta, he is actually using the price of the bare bones 38 mpg-highway version. Again, his SOP.

 

Prius is a midsize "sedan"? Hmmm. Maybe the Civic hybrid fits that description (since it has a trunk):

~26,000 for the Civic hybrid (including tax)
~16,000 for the standard Civic
And about 10mpg difference. So that means you would have to drive the hybrid version around 2 million miles for gasoline savings to match the initial price tag savings of the nonhybrid.

That is why I stated I can only recommend the low cost Prius C and Honda insight to folks looking to save money.

Aside: I never consider city MPG because they are full of smog & I avoid them almost completely. I advise my fellow citizens to do the same (also eat less food) to improve their health.

 

I can only recommend a car that meets the buyer's requirements. So we usually go over the requirements and then give a list of options. This includes buying a used car such as these recently sold on Ebay:

• $6,900 - 2008 Prius
• $13,990 - 2012 Prius
• $7,550 - 2008 Prius
• $8,995 - 2006 Prius
• $14,500 - 2012 Prius
• $2,233 - 2002 Prius

A used Prius is better than a new <anything> else since the deprecation has already been paid. You get more car, affordable, and over all, a great starter.

Our first Prius is a 2003 bought with 49,000 miles on the odometer. I just parked it back from lunch and it has over 160,000 miles. Still haven't changed the brake pads and shoes.

Bob Wilson

 

More misleading TH FUD, comparing the hybrid price at MSRP OTD, while the non-hybrid is at a steeply discounted price, well below invoice, without destination fee, and without TTL.

And that 'about 10mpg difference' is 11 mpg highway, 14 mpg combined.

 

Show your math then. YOU figure-out how's my miles the CH would have to be driven until its gasoline savings match the Base Civics price tag savings. (It will still be hundreds of thousands of miles.)

BTW I also cannot recommend diesels. Cruze Diesel is waaaay more expensive than the base Cruze or Cruze Eco (42? mpg). The fuel savings would take 1-2 million miles to match the price tag savings of buying the nondiesel Cruzes.

The base Camry is cheaper than the hybrid Camry. The base Acura ILX or RLX are cheaper than the hybrid versions..... the base Fusion is cheaper than the hybrid Fusion (et cetera et cetera).

The Prius C and Insight are the only hybrids I can recommend, as they will save my neighbor money (because of their low ~19,000 cost). :-D

 

When I buy a car, I am not charged for all of my operating expenses at the same time . . . and neither are you. Yet you insist this is the only accounting method 'allowed.' Nonsense.

We buy cars to meet our transportation requirements and once purchased, that cost has instantly been transfered with the title and registration. There is nothing that can bring that money back until the car is sold. Thereafter, it is operating costs alone that matter and that comes from future income, not the past that just bought the car.

I know it is a hard thing for some folks to wrap their heads around, doing accounting by another means. But it really is the difference between a capital and operational expense. So if a car sits in a barn, the purchase price is the same as if it drives 100,000 miles per year as some taxi and delivery service vehicles do.

So I always recommend understanding the buyer's requirements, versus someone who has 'no dog in that fight.' We call such busy-bodies, gossips, and their insights have the same value as gossip.

Bob Wilson

 

Show your pricing sources.

 

That's great for you, but the fact is that a lot of people do drive in the city. And it would improve the air quality if more people who do drive in the city drove hybrids. I advise my fellow citizens to drive hybrids, EVs, PHEVs when they are in the city, or anywhere else. And I tell them to eat less sodium -- it helps to lower blood pressure.

Mike

 

So are you some sort of Californian who like to see the mountains instead of a grey, eye-burning smog?

Bob Wilson

 

Lets compare city MPG please?

One more thing, if mid-$20k Prius is too expensive to own, why average car sold in USA costs $30k? I would like to know answer to this one.

 

One of the reasons I bought mine. Tons of space and very comfortable!

My first ride in a Prius was in a NYC cab.

 

Reminds me of the conversation I had with the toyota shuttle driver a few months ago. Older fellow, referred to a lexus as an overpriced "couch" on wheels.
Maybe a tad simplistic metaphor for a car but in the end, isn't it really just a place to park your butt and carry you around places?

On the topic, I was one of those "never consider a hybrid or electric" people a few years ago. Then when it was time to retire my current ride a couple years ago I decided to look into the Prius. Sure glad I did. With gas prices currently sitting at $1.50 per liter in my city and only promising to rise it doesn't take much driving to make up the so called "hybrid premium".
The way I look at it, as I drive the v, my only real alternative for comparable interior space would be a small SUV, which =worse MPG and higher purchase price. So, where is this hybrid premium they speak of??

 

I never said my accounting is the only method. That's why I asked other people to share their accounting math. Prius is a midsize but only just barely. Its original format was classed as a compact, so I think it's reasonable to compare, for example, a Focus and a Prius if the difference is a trivial 1-2 cu. foot. In fact I bet the Focus has more usable space simply due to how that internal space has been arranged. (The focus trunk can be stuffed full of goods without blocking the rear view.)

Bob: If a customer buys a car (example: Acura ILX) for $25,000 and sells it for $15,000 then he is ten thousand dollars poorer than when he started. No amount of accounting tricks will change that. Said customer would be better off buying a 16,000 dollar car (example: the ILX but in its Honda Civic base format), selling it for ten thousand, and waste far less cash.

Actually the best investment is to drive until the car dies..... just like I do with any other appliance (TV, fridge, stove). The cost comes-out to ~8 cents per mile. Trading-in a car after only 5 years/75,000 miles (US average) with about ten thousand price tag loss is 13 c/mile.

 

Volumes -
Prius: 115.3 cu. ft.
Focus Hatchback: 114.5
Focus Sedan: 103.1
Fiesta Hatchback: 1oo.o and 95.2
Fiesta Sedan: 97.9

So TH is creating a Chimera, a mythological creature composed of parts of several real items, to compare against the Prius. This Chimera has:

The shape of a Focus Sedan,
The interior volume of the Focus Hatchback,
The highway MPG of the smaller Fiesta with optional Ecoboost engine,
A price lower than the invoice of the Fiesta base model, without the Ecoboost upgrade,
No destination fee,
No taxes,
And is never run in city conditions.

Of course this Chimera is better, because it is a myth!

Unfortunately, this has been TH's SOP, to sow a bunch of confusion over new readers. The highway-only bit is reasonable for a certain subset of drivers, but the rest is trolling for a ***** designation.

 

Could not say it better myself!!