Gas Prices

I think it's California requiring this special blend; not the Feds. Only the refineries in the state and a handful of other out of state refineries have the capability to make this this blend, and it's more expensive to make. If there is a refinery mishap, the supply goes down and the price goes up. No new refineries are being built in California to meet increasing demand. I'd like to see an independent cost-benefit analysis on whether this special blend is worth it.

California also enacted a carbon tax a couple of years ago, which raised the price of gasoline 11 cents a gallon. Why didn't they repurpose this money to fix the roads instead of raising the gas taxes?

 

Perhaps you might recommend they use: GasBuddy.com - Find Low Gas Prices in the USA and Canada

They can drive directly to the nearest, cheapest gas station and the problem is solved.

Bob Wilson

 

you are correct on all counts, and just wait til Oct or Nov for the next gas tax increase - that is supposedly going to roadwork ... only time will tell

 

$2.60~ seems to be about average for Western PA. That's okay though because our electric rates are super low.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

Yes I think the reformulated gasolines of the 1990's deserve a rethink. Among other things the 10% ethanol really makes a dent in MPG when you are in the 50+ range, not mention the lower energy content of the E0 portion of RFG. Cars are so much cleaner burning today, not sure what the optimum fuel is now.

 

Optimum for who or what?
The vehicle, the consumer, business, or politics?

 

The original reformulated gasoline was for reduced emissions/smog, based on extensive joint Auto/Oil R&D studies. Since then I think sulfur in gasoline has been reduced to ultra-low levels, which is probably the biggest factor (sulfur "poisons" the catalytic converter). So presumably if sulfur is really low, not sure some of the other EPA/CARB formula mandates are required now.

Politics gets involved in the ethanol mandate obviously. One of the controversial findings of the old Auto/Oil study was minimal benefit of ethanol as far as cleaner burning, so eventually the justification for ethanol was changed to reduce petroleum imports.

 

As I understand it, the ethanol requirement is all about rewarding corn farmers in the Midwest for their generous campaign contributions to Congress, even though making ethanol from corn is energy-intensive and not particularly clean. As opposed to specifying emissions targets that could be met in various ways, the rules were carefully constructed so that using ethanol made from Midwest corn was the only practical way to satisfy the rules.

 

Well back in the days (~1980) before catalytic converters, ethanol was well known to reduce CO in the exhaust. CO used to be like 8% (80,000 ppm - deadly) in auto exhaust before cat converters. Gasohol could whack that CO back like 30+% reduction, which was important in some cities eg Denver. So there was the feeling that ethanol helped, and that is why Congress was inclined to go along with the the corn lobby. But then when cat converters came out, CO is now essentially zero in Prius exhaust except when cold. So that's when Congress basically had to say they demand ethanol in the Clean Air Act for reasons other than clean air. Also we had an alternate (MTBE) for a ~10-yr time until that turned out to have eco-issues. During the Bush2 era, it seriously looked like we were running out of oil so everyone (bipartisan) was more supportive of alternates then. Since then a lot of huge changes in the energy picture.

 

At 2,000 miles I have not bought gas yet for my Prime, but filled up my Sienna yesterday for $2.59 / Gal. I am one of those who does believe in buying the cheapest gas because I don't want to support the price gougers and yo-yo pricing, also I am saving around $4 per fill up. It so happens the cheapest gas is not far from my house and they basically track the price at Costco but without the long lines. If I am on the road using Gas Guru makes it simple to find the cheapest gas nearby.

 

Ethanol remains the least toxic way to raise octane and oxygenate gasoline.

 

...but one scientific point is we don't need to oxygenate fuel. The only reason to have an oxygen content requirement is to mandate ethanol.

Anyways, back to price, I predict as low as $1/gal some places by Feb_2018. I was wrong this year 2017 due to the OPEC attempt to increase the price, but that was temporary.

 

Thats not even adding in there the cost of your time driving to get it. My time isn't free and wasting 20 minutes of time that i could be having fun is worth more then a couple of dollars in my pocket.

 

Got it for $1.88 today at work.

 

I read somewhere that the oil companies would still use alcohol even if there were no government mandate because it's the cheapest way to raise the octane level.

 

Yesterday I gassed up for $2.049/gallon. I could have gotten it for $2.019/gallon if I'd wanted to wait to make a U-turn, then make a right turn, then enter the station to fill up, then make a right turn out and try to get a U-turn asap, then wait for a left turn arrow so I could get back to where I was when I saw the lower price. Not worth it for 24 cents.

 

Hey where's your sense of fun, Mr. Mildred!! You can't get a ride like that at Disneyland for 24 cents!!!

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True dat!! Especially since, around here, they drive by ear rather than by sight. (BAM!! "Oops. Time to hit the brakes.")

 

Har, har!, Mr. Mildred that sounds like Bumper Cars; are you sure you're not in Disneyland!!??

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For So Cal readers: something to keep in mind.
On top of taxes and the normal fluctuation in gas prices, be prepared to pay at least 10c more a gallon soon. Remember that Arco (the low-price gas station chain, part of BP) has left the SoCal market due to BP's troubles after their terrible disaster a few years back. There are still Arco stations operating because BP doesn't want to throw money away breaking leases. But as soon as an Arco station's lease is up, it will close. Whether or not you like Arco, it is consistently at least 10c below other normal gas outlets (not counting membership stores). Many of the Arco stations that have already closed have turned into USA Gas stations, with an immediate average 8c raise in price, those that have turned into 76 or other higher-brand stations has gone up over 10c. The head of one of the chains buying a lot of the Arco stations when their lease is up was quoted a year or so ago in the paper basically saying "we're going to price ourselves where the rest of the market is, not where Arco has traditionally been." So as all the Arco stations slowly close over the next 5 years or so and turn into USA, 76, or other gasoline brands, expect prices (on top of all other factors) to increase by at least 10c/gal due to this. Luckily near me is one independent station that undercuts everyone -- it's super close, never had a problem with the gas quality, and is the cheapest by far. But as Arco leaves little by little, we're all going to be paying more.