Furious and ignorant Nissan Leaf driver

You have a point in that.

However, with the inadequate (my opinion) range of EVs, without charging locations, our EV-driving siblings wouldn't be able to use their EVs. They'd be stuck at home ordering delivery and Amazon.

In any case, the proper battleground for the allocation issue is with the management of the facility hosting the charging slot, NOT in the parking space itself. OP should never have parked his hybrid in the EV space.

We get enough bad press from the gasoline-only crowd by virtue of being a hybrid.

Even more since some of our brethren insist on being pokey drivers.

Why should we deliberately antagonize what should be natural allies in the EV crowd by parking our wide hybrid derrieres in THEIR charging stations?

 

The issue wasn't so much that the OP was occupying the charging spot. By CA law, he's supposed to only occupy it when actively charging.

But, that was impossible since the PiP has no CHAdeMO inlet, the PiP has no DC fast charging capability and the OP left his vehicle. J1772 inlets are physically incompatible w/the CHAdeMO connector available on the DC fast charger he blocked.

 

And if this is a private facility ("the management of the facility hosting the charging slot") why should any municipal regulation apply? If a private owner signs and limits access/use of its facilities, then it is their call to tow or not to tow. Like "private parking".

 

I do not believe that any municipal regulation should apply if it is a private facility.

However, my point was never about the regulation.

It was about pragmatism and common sense.

There is no valid reason (except possibly it being the last space in the entire parking lot) for a Prius to occupy a space specialized for the charging of an EV vehicle.

 

^^^
PiP does have a valid reason (and a right) to occupy a designated EV charging spot, as long as it's actively using the charging equipment (EVSE or charger). It wasn't and couldn't, in this case.

 

True

It sounds like your heart is in the right place. And I can understand since you never saw a CHAdeMO station before it might have been confusing.

I am curious though; what were you hoping to find on the internet? Did you think there still might be a way for you to charge there?

 

Yeah, too bad there isn't a standard, eh?

Once again, too bad there isn't a standard, eh?

 

There are:
J1772 - ubiquitous for L1 and L2 AC charging. My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - SAE combo plug/Frankenplug EV/PHEV car list says there are over 11K of them. There are no doubt 10s of thousands of non-public installations and/or portable EVSEs, as each BEV and PHEV ships with at least an L1 EVSE.

CHAdeMO - ubiquitous for DC FAST charging. PiP, Volt, Fit EV, Rav4 EV, etc. don't support ANY DC fast charging at all. Perhaps you can blame the makers of those vehicles for not providing CHAdeMO support?

Tesla's own "standards" - They have different proprietary plugs for their Roadster vs. Model S. You can get J1772 adapters (Model S comes w/one, IIRC). For DC fast charging, the Model S has its own MUCH FASTER than CHAdeMO proprietary Supercharger system. Tesla on camera has said they'll do CHAdeMO adapters for the Japanese market (kinda helpful since there are over 1700 CHAdeMO DC fast chargers in Japan and 0 Superchargers).

On the Model S, their single proprietary connector supports AC charging and DC fast charging.

J1772 CCS aka Frankenplug - Some upcoming vehicles can have this for DC fast charging. 0 public stations so far. 0 shipping cars so far w/this. Many (most?) existing J1772 vehicles have a physical inlet constraint where the plug w/extra 2 pins won't even fit. Supposedly, J1772 CCS DC fast charge stations won't supply AC anyway.

 

Hey, we got all kinds of standards! Not sure it's all that bad. This is an emerging technology and it may very well be too early for there to be a unified standard. As the fleet of plugins grows, the number of standards will coalesce. EVs in 10 or 20 years will be quite different as will their public charging needs. Which may be considerably less than today.

 

To steal from My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Agreement on Charging Standards?.

And to quote from another there:

And to quote from someone else there in 2011 when an agreement relating to Frankenplug surfaced:

That was basically true, at the time, whereas CHAdeMO had already been deployed and vehicles w/the inlets had been shipping for at least 10-11 months.

 

You once again neatly illustrate the LACK of a single STANDARD that until resolved guarantees range anxiety-related "charge-rage".

Bingo.

LACK of a single STANDARD, until resolved, GUARANTEES range anxiety-related "charge-rage".

 

Nonsense.
"Charge rage" as you put it would be cut by 90% if charge stations simply weren't free.
I personally have never experienced it, but my driving habits are such that I have never needed to use a public charger in 3 years (42,000 miles) of EV driving.

The only brand of car that has the same 'plug' for both level 2 and quick charging is Tesla. Other than that you must have two different plugs, just as you must have a different screwdriver bit for flat screws and Phillips screws.
The lack of a standard there has not, as far as I know, caused any problems for people that use them.

And if they want to, I am sure Tesla would be happy to license their single plug solution to other companies.

 

New to the thread? Read above!

Given the trillions-large population of screws (loose and otherwise), the various screwdriver standards (blade, Philips, Torx, Allen, even the silly Apple case screws) are not a huge disservice.

Not so the relatively small population of EVs and their far too numerous "charging standards".

 

It is silly to think that there should be a single standard. If there was then NOBOBY would be able to charge at home since 120v charging would not be the single standard.

Mike

 

Of course it is silly to think of a standard that excludes 120V charge stations. A "standard" intelligent plug and charging station protocol handles all that.

What is really silly is four or five incompatible "standards" on a miniscule population of vehicles.

 

We need another law to have plugin drivers communicate effectively.

With Volt owners calling their car electric, I'd say the sign is not clear. It should specifically say PHEVs are not allowed or anything with a gas (combustion) engine is not supposed to come 5 feet from the spot.

 

Slippery Slope

 

The issue in the OP's case has nothing to do w/whether the vehicle is a PHEV or has an engine.

The issue was that his vehicle couldn't use a CHAdeMO DC fast charger AND that he wasn't actively charging using the charging equipment (which he couldn't use anyway) while occupying the designated spot, breaking CA law.

If GM or Toyota put CHAdeMO DC fast charge ports (and capabilities) in their vehicles and the owner/lessee pulled into that spot and actively charged there, it wouldn't be an issue.

Unfortunately, it seems unlikely GM will, since they're in the Frankenplug camp. Toyota is in the CHAdeMO camp, but has yet to release any such vehicle. The Rav4 EV (aka poor man's Tesla) would be more compelling either Tesla Supercharger or CHAdeMO compatibility...

 

Sigh... arguing this w/you is like trying to argue w/a brick wall.

There is a single standard that virtually PHEV and EV has adopted for AC charging: J1772. Some require adapters, like Tesla because they decided to go their own route.

I believe the proprietary connector used on the Tesla Roadster is electrically real similar to J1772 and I believe TonyWilliams and others have charged J1772 vehicles using them (w/adapters). The Roadster predates the modern version of J1772 (w/round connector) we have now.

Tesla did do a single connector for the Model S to support AC charging and DC fast charging but the connector is again proprietary and their Supercharger "standard" is also proprietary.

If we limited ourselves to only AC charging, which is relatively slow (My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - How many miles per hour of charging at level 2? Toyota Rav4 EV Forum • View topic - Fresno to Gilroy (CA) trip report), then nothing to worry about.

BTW, it seems J1772 dates back pretty far as supposedly the old Avcon claw style EVSEs are similar to J1772, just the plug is different. See My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Avcon charging a Leaf! and Honda of Stevens Creek (95129_1).

Some folks want faster, higher power DC-based charging, which unfortunately requires an expensive charger OUTSIDE the car (vs. the on-board charger used when using J1772 L1 and L2). CHAdeMO was developed by a Japanese consortium. Tesla went their own way.

GM, Ford and some European automakers decided on another totally different standard aka J1772 CCS aka Frankenplug (most of which don't even have serious EV programs), which only seems to serve the purpose of slowing down Nissan.

Bottom line: If there's a designated EV spot and you aren't actively charging or can't charge, move your car. Don't block it!

To steal 1 of 3 notices from https://www.blinknetwork.com/file/7741/Blink+Courtesy+Notices.pdf.

 

Of course it does. His vechicle can be charged with electricity, which is why he was drawn to there.

If he had a regular Prius, I would agree with you. You have pointed out the CA law at least 5 times. Give it a rest. I understand it is a new law and not many people know about it. The way you guys are trying to "educate" others seem repulsive. I agree the information needs to spread but there has to be a better way than "you are breaking the law and you are dead wrong so stop lying".

I remember reading about the law (including illegal to unplug a charging vehicle) but If I see such charging station, I would be drawn to it as well. Seeing the sign saying it is for electric cars only, I would assume it is for plugin vehicles, including plugin hybrids. I would not be able to tell it is a CHAdeMO charger unless I try to charge.

I can park my PiP in a gas station. Why can't I park mine in a charging station? PiP takes both fuels. Even if I stop at a Diesel pump, we all could just laugh it off.

This incident is far from funny. A lot of people are so seriously upset over something that could have been taken out with a laughter.