Fueleconomy.gov has the Prius Prime

i estimate 5 minutes to fill to the second click, including getting in and out. i'll put a top watch on her next time. 45 years of driving, and i'm just finding out the importance of fuel up time. i probably don't watch enough (read any) nascar.

 

For the last 2 years I am filling my PiP tank only half full (about 20 liters).
I am about 65% lifetime EV so why to carry extra dead weight?.
Even so, I am visiting the gas station once every about 6 weeks.
Knowing I am about to have a long trip I fill full.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

New Jersey does not permit self serve gas...don't ask. And, the gas pump jockeys are forbidden by law to top off the tank. (Yes, I live in a nanny state). In the winter, I never would get a full tank of gas, which was incredibly annoying. I have noticed, though, that the Prime seems to have taken care of this problem. The few times I have gotten gas, the tank has been filled almost to capacity. So, you might find that with the prime, you won't have to do the little multi-click waltz.

 

5 gallons of gas = 40 lbs? i should go on a diet.

 

Gas is 6.183 pounds a gallon.
Water is around 8.6.

 

looks like i won't have to give up as many twinkies.

 

You do. Consider these variables:

1. the results are very dependent on the presumed total mileage. You may drive e.g. 640 miles in a day but I sure do not.
2. You may start a day or a trip with a full charge
3. Breaks during the trip are advisable and can be combined with charging. Tesla owners routinely combine charging with lunch.

So each person can figure out their own net additional charging times on long trips. For me on SC routes it looks like about 30 minutes extra a day at most, and more likely under 15.

I find it pretty amazing that a Tesla can even come close to an ICE in long distance driving times. And of course the difference is going to narrow in the near future with bigger batteries and faster chargers.

 

This matches my expectation that the LEAF will turn into a compliance vehicle for Nissan. Of course then each car is expensive to produce and they are not by definition competing with Tesla.

 

then your scenario is invalid.

 

As is iPlug's

 

Or it just gives Nissan more marketing flexibility.

Surely Nissan would like to make money on the Leaf or any vehicle in their fleet. Unlike the Gen 1 Plug-in Prius, the Gen 1 Leaf was both a 50-State and worldwide vehicle.

Nissan and Tesla aren’t the only players in the game, and both have made significant investments and have access to the significant continued improvements in battery system costs. Who is to say that it will be more expensive to produce a ~200 mile EV range Leaf or Model 3?

They will join the Bolt and others will not be far behind. Nissan does not have the cachet of Tesla and therefore will not benefit so greatly from halo sales. But Nissan can sell Leaf 2.0 at or even below manufacturing costs if they feel they need to meet any aggressive sales goals.

Yes, if Nissan needs credits to meet fleet average fuel economy metrics in different markets, this could be a motivating factor.

But the real question is about what the customer sees as competitor – a ~200mile EV range Leaf, Bolt, or Tesla, etc. There will be plenty of cross shopping between these guys. If one costs the customer thousands less, why would they not consider it a competitor?

True, the CHAdeMO network is not as robust as the Supercharging network, but it shows Nissan put some effort into it, and DC fast charging will continue to grow across the U.S. regardless of direct manufacturer support at this point.

 

There is one auto company with a battery Gigafactory. It is a formidable advantage in battery production costs. Nissan used to have a smaller scale battery factory but IIRC it has been sold.

 

I'm a fan of Tesla. But like Apple, they aren't going to "win" at this game on costs, but on their halo.

China produces more batteries and will continue to do so compared to the Gigafactory. The Gigafactory gets lots of press, but other large manufacturers like LG and Samsung have also been realizing aggressive production cost gains and they will continue to scale up to supply auto manufacturers, utilities, and new markets.

 

no one company gets all the business. i don't understand the thought process. leaf, bolt, tesla, ionique, whatever. if ev's ever catch on, they will all do well. the more options for the consumer, the better, especially in battery size.

 

Big halo for sure, but based on real advantages:

1. Tremendous cost advantages from the GF and in-house expertise and production of all major components of the car. Toyota did the same 15 years ago with the Prius when they decided to move in house production for needed electronics.
2. The SuperCharger network. No other EV is a long distance car.
3. Huge advantage in assisted driving. This is actually my #1 reason why I expect to buy a Tesla in the next couple of years.
4. Anticipated huge advantage in scale from the GF and battery business
5. Huge advantage in engineering across multiple disciplines, in part borrowed expertise from SpaceX
6. Start-up mentalitiy of their entire work-force
7. Elon Musk and JB Straubel

Any one advantage is considerable; all together and it looks like a stacked deck. The only significant advantage the other players have is massive capital. That is a big one, but so long as the market believes in Tesla it is not going to matter.

 

How about knowing how to actually build stuff? Tesla has been late on everything and slow to ramp up. They always over promise and under deliver when it comes to both initial production and production ramp.

Toyota built 100 times as many vehicles in 2016 as did Tesla. That is an absolutely enormous obstacle to overcome.

 

Actually, by filling half tank my saving is about 10 liters of gas or about 8 kg. But it is effortless and can be added to the diet saving

Here is my EV ratio for the last 3 years less 2 months:



As you can see, with this kind of ratio it is effortless...