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On EV expansion. Kansas City just finished the new airport. The parking garage now has over 6,000 parking spots on its 6 levels. There are also 64 EV parking spots with chargers. I don't do math for a living but that seems to be a 1:94 ratio.(6 I also noticed that they were install on the 4th floor in the center. Which is the center of the structure both horizontally and vertically. I assume this was done by the EE and ME teams to be able to expand to more EV spots in the future. The laughable part is I saw about 20 Teslas and VWs, Porsche and about 35 gassers parked there. everything from huge 4 x4 lifted trucks, beater taurus, mustangs,(not mach e) ALSO parked there. The spots are premium and it doesn't seem they are enforcing any EV parking only. Made me LOL. Since this Parking garage is brand new and MCI seems to have gone ultra modern. How did they choose the number of EV charging stations to begin with?
edit:
FROM KCI Website
Plug in before you fly out.
Kansas City International Airport offers electric vehicle charging stations inside the Parking Garage and Economy Lots. In partnership with Evergy's Clean Charge Network, travelers can plug in and fly out knowing they'll come home to a fully charged vehicle. Travelers will need a free Evergy Clean Charge Network card in advance. Visit Evergy's website for more information and to sign up.

Kansas City International Airport has 52 EV Charging spaces and 4 EV ADA charging spaces in the Garage on Level 4 Row E. The Surface Lot has 6 EV chargers and 1 EV ADA space in row B2. Economy Parking Lot C has 24 EV charging spaces. EV Charging is also offered with Valet service. Customers using electric vehicle charging will need a ChargePoint account to use chargers.


I Also note there is no DC fast charging???? or does Chargepoint not offer that on all there chargers?

 

Well that stinks as it kind of puts EV's out of the question again for me. So I guess if I want an EV it's got to be a PHEV since I'm not buying a nice new EV just for around town while I drive some old clunker on long trips.

Gunnison.

No I don't have an official record. It used to get down to -40°F quite often about 15 years ago when I first moved here. There is a record of -60°F that can be found online of Taylor basin area which is near here. I hit -52°F once in South Park county.

 

I am unsure, however, an airport parking ramp, for flyers, is the very last place you would want DC Fast charging.
The expected patrons there will be plugged in for multiple days. Really, they don’t need more than 16-20 Amps.

It is a bummer they put them in premium spots. Hopefully they make it clear, soon, that these spots are for charging.

 

The state record low of -61F is official on February 1, 1985, in Maybell, CO. I don't doubt you having experienced -40F daytime low temperature quite frequently. What I am questioning is the "sustained" low temperature below -40F for a week. That sounds like some kind of record to me if it really did happen in the lower 48 states. I believe it can and surely has happened in Alaska. Or it may also happen in isolated places where people do not live, like the top of Mt. Washington. But in the lower 48 states city or town where people do live, a daily high of -40F for an entire week must be something that gets recorded and talked about if it did happen.

I don't think I have ever experienced lower than -40F personally, but it wasn't in Maine. It was in North Dakota some 30 years ago. I've had lower than -40F windchill, but here we are talking about air temperature. The traction battery in EVs do not get any colder than the ambient temp even on a gusty day. The recorded official lowest temperature in Maine is -50F. We do have -20F to -30F frequently enough during a cold snap with an arctic blast, but even on those days, the daytime high temp is substantially higher than the record low temperature. So, I don't think we have ever had a daytime high temperature of -40F. Having a daytime high temperature of -40F condition to sustain for 7 days is something I have not heard of nor can I find a record showing a streak of -40F or below daily high temp for 7 days.

A cursory search online found this in a Wikipedia article. Yeah, you have plenty of -40F or below record low temps, but were they sustained for an entire week with a daytime high not exceeding -40F?

 

Sorry to hear you ran into that.
The Leaf had a couple big issues. First, Leaf owners are the ones that coined the term ‘Guess-o-meter’.
While all gauges are estimates, the Leaf one was notoriously bad.
Two, the original Leaf had a very limited range, and a battery pack that suffered in hot climates. I don’t know if you bought one used, but if so, and it came from Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, etc you probably got shafted.

In a place with more severe weather than Minnesota, the 50% range rule may not be a bad one.
In my case, I don’t drive as much in the winter, other than trips.
Because with a trip, I am not stopping and letting the motor cool of, the range hit for winter trips is closer to 10% to 30% (for those -40F days driving into a headwind).

The EV’s have come a long way. I’d recommend taking one out for a test drive on one of your frigid days, if you find yourself in a situation where one is an option.

 

Ya, I don't remember all the details. I just remember seeing -40°F a lot and friends and I would talk about the week of -40°F that would happen every year. It could have been just the morning low.

TBH every year seems warmer. I don't think we went below -30°F this year.

When the Leaf died with half its range it was around -15°F (IIRC the gauge on the Leaf started at -13°F and ended at -17°F). The point is we do get lots of weather around that temp. -40°F is getting rarer and rarer, but -15°F is still quite common.

Say I need to go to Denver (200 miles away) one wintery day that's -15°F. Would I make it at least to the next charging station in a Bolt, a bZ4X, Tesla or other EV? What if it's snowing and I end up throwing on tire chains or cables? The closest station on that route, albeit a tad out of the way, is about 67 miles from my house for CCS/SAE (Tesla is a bit closer actually). So I'm guessing that yes, any +200 mile range EV could be practical as an only vehicle and not cause range anxiety even in a worse case scenario.

Thanks! Ya, I'd like to test drive my next car in a close to worse-case-scenario where I live. From what I understand, there's some sort of way to rent cars like that from what I've heard, so that's an option.

 

Great that it is happening.

But my example of my way of thinking was in a city a tenth the size of St Paul and with planning requirements that are more typical of the even smaller semi-rural train crossing city it once was. I just went through the zoning and annexation of land adjacent to a 300 lot development I'm responsible for. Enlightening, discouraging.

 

Well, I found an official climate data site run by one of your state universities. I was able to find and download raw data from the Gunnison 3SW weather station data. The station is located at Longitude: -106.9672 Latitude: 38.5254 at Elevation: 7622 ft.

Anyway, here is the line plot of the daily high temp and daily low temp for the last 17 years at Gunnison station. Guess what, there is not a single day during this span of the period this station recorded a daily low that was colder than -40F. The second graph showing only the daily max temp shows you clearly that the coldest daytime high temp is mostly above 0F. Only small numbers of days in records are below 0F, never reaching -10F.

The graph clearly shows that you had the coldest winter in 2008 during the last 17 years, but it is hard to say that there is an obvious warming trend.

Colorado Climate Center - Data Access

I totally understand where you are coming from. When your destination is 200 miles away, even on a warmer day, you are likely to be needing to charge before reaching the destination for most BEVs with a 200-300 miles range. And you have to consider the time factor for charging as well. You have to stop to charge at least 2, but more like 3 including the final destination charge. If each charge up to 80% is going to take 30 min, that's 1.5 hours of loss-time.

In my case, the closest CCS station en route is ~200 miles away. If Tesla opens up its SuperCharger to other EVs, then I will have one closer at ~100 miles away. My final destination for a long trip I frequently make on a day trip is ~300 miles each way, and there is no convenient way to charge at the destination. With a hybrid car that runs on gas with 400 miles or more range with a full tank, I can complete this day trip with a single gas stop for 5 min. I do this trip several times a year. Leaving home at 5 am then arriving at the destination ~300 miles by 10 am. I do my business there, then leave for home by 5 pm and come home by 10 pm. Most of those trips are done during the warmer seasons, but even with the longest-range BEV I can afford, I will not be able to complete the trip on a single day, I am afraid. That's why, for me currently, a BEV is only for in- and around-town commuter, in addition to a long-range ICE car in the household. For that role, a BEV with 100 miles of range is fine, but for this limited use, it has to be cheap.

 

Are you saying that average temperatures are more important than lowest temperatures in the morining when I'd be starting out on a long trip?

I did go to Denver in the 24kWh Leaf. I did one 700 mile round trip and one 400 mile round trip. Both of those included 120V charging as the only option at certain points. Only on the 700 mile trip was the only time I found and used a level 3 charger. Of course things have changed significantly.

So yes, I'm well aware of the challenge of charging a BEV on long trips.

 

No. The data I pulled are the min and a max temp of each day, not an average of anything. Certainly, your morning low is likely to be colder than the afternoon high. But data shows that -40F or lower in the morning did not happen, and sustained -40F for enter week certainly did not happen during the last 17 years at the weather station. Assuming it is close to your home, the coldest day's high temp was most likely above 0 F. Yes, you have had several days of very cold mornings. That is absolutely true.

 

In Minnesota, I often refer to wind-chill temps on extremely cold days.
Is it possible that Isaac is remembering?
Wind chill has no affect on battery packs. Although if it is a tailwind/headwind it can help/hinder the efficiency.

 

Yes, it is certainly a possibility. But even if it was windchill, not the actual air temperature, I still think sustained -40F or below windchill for 7 days is unlikely. I might be wrong. But if any populated area in the lower 48 states gets that cold, I think there will be some record or article I can find.

While the wind chill has no effect on the traction battery, the human operating the car feels the cold and changes his/her behavior accordingly. People tend to keep the heater on higher and longer on a cloudy and windy cold day. The solar gain through the window into the cabin of a car on a sunny even on a very cold day is far more efficient in keeping the cabin temperature nice and warm than blasting a heater at night or day with a lot of clouds. On a sunny day, I usually do not use a heater in my car even when the ambient temp or windchill is sub-zero temp.

 

@john1701a
Hi , I have a quick question about the fast DC charging on the bz4x.
I have read somewhere that it will not permit fast dc charging after 2 consecutive fast charge ?!!!
Did it happened to you , the car not permetting a fast dc charge on the third consecutive charge.
Also does radiant heat do a good job .
Thanks

 

There is an owner's discussion about slow charging after multiple charges here;

Is every bZ4X in North America a lemon? | Toyota BZ Forum

From what they say, the issue primarily seems to concern the all-wheel drive version.
.

 

@hill thanks for your input , I appreciate
Does the Nissan ariya perform better in DC charging than the Bz4x

 

Don't know - after Nissan's 1st gen Leaf debacle (super fast battery degradation) class action of which ours was a part - we stay away from all their ev products & let others be guinea pigs for their trial & errors.
.

 

The AWD version of bZ4X has the CATL designed battery. The 2023 model year AWD was limited to 100 kW and after 2 DCFC sessions would undergo severe throttling of that. Toyota has corrected most of those issues with the 2024 model year and it wasn't merely a software fix.

From:2024 Toyota bZ4X: Engineered for Electrifying Exhilaration - Toyota USA Newsroom

"Charging times in cold weather conditions have been improved for DC fast charging. Enhancements have been made to the battery thermal system, including the addition of a water-to-water heat exchanger and heating adjustment valve to increase battery temperature, allowing for faster DC charging in cold temperatures."

Both the FWD bZ4X and AWD bZ4X charge at 150 kW (according to their specifications) with the AWD version taking 35 minutes to charge to 80% instead of an hour (or more) like it was in the 2023 model year.