Featured From Ars Technica today: Owning an electric car really does save money, Consumer Reports finds

Marai has not been released yet for Maine. But you already knew that.

Toyota selected areas of California to sell the Marai by where Hydrogen would be available.No surprise.

 

Actually yes - an electric bicycle will cost less ... and it too can be ridden around much of california. Just sold our Pedigo electric bike to a co-worker .... $550.

The thread says electric cars. True - if you have a car with gasoline in it ... or CNG in it ... or hydrogen in it ... or diesel in it ... or propane ... the fuel can be used to make electricity. But electric cars can economically fuel right at home ... right from your own rooftop solar. oh wait ... i forgot ... we all have to be inclusionists now days or we'll be shamed. ok ... it's like that Lexus commercial says, about their hybrids ... they make their own electricity. so yea! all those other cars that have to carry fuel to make electricity? Their EV's too!

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What is Toyota doing to increase the number of stations so that they can sell more FCEVs? Doesn't matter how well the public is informed about hydrogen FCEVs if there isn't any stations near them.

Today's BEVs can work for a large percentage of American's daily driving needs right now, without a huge investment for public charging infrastructure. That is only needed for longer trips. Those that regularly do such trips can get a PHEV. And while work is going on the reduce the cost of hydrogen, there is work improving batteries, and on drop in renewable replacements for diesel and gasoline.

The FCX Clarity became available to the public in 2008, when there were already some hydrogen stations available. It has taken over a decade for California to get the infrastructure to where it is now, and it is short of the original goals. The number of plug in options are just going to increase with the coming years. I don't see the hydrogen network growing at a rate to keep the cars competitive.

 

Don’t leave out the power plants make electricity too! Their fuel, fuels your EV.

 

This may shed some light:
Why hydrogen fuel cell cars will be Tesla's biggest threat - Business Insider

 

That explained absolutely nothing on how hydrogen will get out of the limited market test phase it is in now.

 

It’s all a matter of time. 23 new Hydrogen sites are being built out in California - with trucking industry looking at Hydrogen more and more hydrogen fuel sites will be built. This will not be overnight but it is happening. Tri-State area is now starting to grow in market share as well.

 

There are more than 23 new Supercharger locations being built in New Jersey alone. There is going to be more Supercharger stations in Hawaii than hydrogen stations. There are literally thousands of them across the globe. Superchargers aren't the only fast charge networks expanding.
Supercharger | Tesla

Tesla started building Superchargers in 2012. Hydrogen stations started being built in California before 2008, and there is just 48 within the US and Canada. In the same area, there is 4932 DC fast charge locations. The US has about 168,000 gas stations. Without a plug, that is the number hydrogen will have to aim for to reach mass acceptance. Without the stations, people will not buy the cars.

Chargers have a massive lead on hydrogen stations, and they started later. Tesla, VW, and other plug in aligned companies aren't going to wait for the hydrogen ones to catch up.The public across most of the nation are regularly seeing plug in cars right now, while FCEVs are stuck to two states.

 

What is the cost to make a hydrogen station?

• $1-2m per station is one reported number (Costs Check Growth of Fuel-Cell Infrastructure | WardsAuto)

Bob Wilson

 

Shell is on board now and they will be rolling out stations as needed. The need will be there. Remember there was a time when Tesla had none. Sure are they late to the game, absolutely. But that can change in a few years. With trucking on board and the Mirai looking more normal (Lexus Like) and Hyundai pushing big time it is inevitable that FCEV will be expanding into the market. Europe is already seeing this expansion, Germany is totally on board.

 

And that is for a station that can only handle a fraction of the traffic a gasoline station gets. While costs can come down, a hydrogen station will always cost more than one for liquid fuels, CNG, ammonia, and electricity.

Some interesting numbers in the article. Projections have somewhere between 5500 and 10,000 hydrogen stations worldwide by 2030.The US may have 250 by 2025, but half will be in California.

Read the Ward's article. Japan may be the only country with enough hydrogen stations in ten years to support hydrogen cars nationwide.

 

There are cheaper ways to sell Hydrogen and these maybe coming soon, without the need for refrigeration. Technology is always evolving. There are 4 big players involved at this time with there eyes on growing the infrastructure. Not including Toyota, Honda and Hyundai.

 

Which came first, the hydrogen vehicle, or the hydrogen fueling station?

 

I am aware of research into other filling and storage techniques. If they reach the point of being adopted, they will render the millions spent on current stations a loss. Requiring retro fitting or complete rebuilding. Today's FCEVs, including the Mirai, won't work with them. It would be far more of a mess than having different fast DC charging standards.

Hydrogen cars and their infrastructure is really still in the research and development phase. The success of Tesla, and others like VW moving to plug ins, has the hydrogen supporters panicked though, and they are rushing product out before it is actually commercially ready.

Well, you could run ICE cars off hydrogen from standard gas cylinders now. You just won't go very far with the amount of gas you could practically, and safely, carry.