Fort Dix

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ May 8 2007, 11:59 PM) [snapback]438058[/snapback]</div>

Contractors don't write base security policy. The security officer for the company is repsonsible for ensuring that background checks are conducted. Any company that depends on government contracts would be foolish to be derelict in that responsibility. If a security clearance is required (depending on that base's security policy, a clearance may or may not be required for base access for an employee whose job does not require access to classified material), the actual investigation is does by DoD personnel. Since 9/11, access to military bases has been greatly restricted. I don't know about Fort Dix, but some military bases don't have classified material, weapons systems, etc. on site and thus are less restrictive.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ May 8 2007, 06:25 PM) [snapback]437941[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ May 9 2007, 09:22 AM) [snapback]438296[/snapback]</div>

Geesh!
Now all we need is daniel to chime in on how the supposed ne'er-do-wells who are 'documentally challenged' [illegally in country] are having their constitutional rights being trampled by an illegally conceived government which has no rights to single out these fine upstanding people who just wanted make a living by delivering pizza to the oppressor's military bases.

Yep, the ultra-liberal trifecta would be complete.

a.) It's a misunderstanding/they were framed.
b.) They couldn't/wouldn't have done it.
c.) They are victims of an oppressive regime.

Just who's side you guys on?
Oh yeah, I forgot. Political expediency.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ May 9 2007, 12:22 PM) [snapback]438296[/snapback]</div>

The people who bombed the english subways and busses were from where?

If you underestimate your opponent, you are making a huge mistake.

I wonder how many here in this country would have said that the Fort is a fair target and they {American Soldiers} were fair targets and should have been on guard?

These are the terrorists we face - they come in all sizes, shapes, nationalities, IQ ranges - they all have a similar operating system - usually a similar religious belief and a hate for America/freedom/liberty/womens rights

They are al-Qaeda - and they are here already - and a bunch of them are probably a lot smarter than this bunch.

Do NOT underestimate those who wish us harm.

Please

This is not a political issue - it is a HUGE mistake to make it such - Democrats/Republicans all bleed red. I witnessed it first hand on 9/11. They are hoping politics triumphs here - divided we are weaker and more vulnerable.

The only question is how many more American civilians will die here on our own turf before we all take this seriously?

 

"Yep, the ultra-liberal trifecta would be complete."

Does that make me part of the "axis of evil"?

Keep up your faith in the Bush administration. They need all the friends they can get right now. I, for one, will sleep easier knowing that they have spent a trillion dollars defending me against a few wannabe terrorist idiots in New Jersey. By the way, the Iraq war has cost 1 trillion. Divided by 300 million Americans, and that is $3,333.00 per head. Money well spent!.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 9 2007, 01:06 PM) [snapback]438380[/snapback]</div>

So, what do we do?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ May 9 2007, 01:16 PM) [snapback]438349[/snapback]</div>

So what exactly do you hope to prove with this??? :lol:



Of course, keep in mind, the 9/11 terrorists weren't genius's either... The only real reason they were able to pull it off is, essentially, because we sat on our slacker laurels and didn't really take anything seriously until we had some kind of "proof"....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 9 2007, 11:32 AM) [snapback]438393[/snapback]</div>

"We" meaning the Bush administration. Yes.

 

Actually, the 9/11 terrorists were quite brilliant. They:

1. Picked a day for the attacks when multiple war games "happened" to be going on.
2. Completedly eluded air defence for hours even though standard operating proceedure is for aircraft without transponders to be intercepted within 10 or 15 minutes.
3. Caused the collapse of the twin towers from fires that were already going out when no steel and concrete buildings had ever before collapsed due to fire, even the Madrid fire that burned 24 hours.
4. Managed to completely collapse WTC 7 in a free-fall speed controlled demolition even though it was never hit by a plane
5. Managed to make millions in profit by shorting stock options
6. Somehow managed to ensure that all debris from the WTC was transported to China before any tests could be carried out on the steel that would reveal the presence of thermite explosives.

Pretty smart, I would say.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 9 2007, 10:35 AM) [snapback]438360[/snapback]</div>

Do realize you are preaching to someone who carries a retired military ID in his wallet . . . BEEN THERE, DONE THAT!
I have been to more military bases in just about every state of the union and to foreign military bases than I can remember. For a majority of my career, my job required/involved travel to many different military bases . . . Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine, Coast Guard and foreign military.

I have a VERY good understanding of military base security protocol - pre 2000.

The idea that a civilian company can wave the magic wand for granting base access to its employees is a BIG hole in base security.

Jihad Pizza just opened a parlor down the street from the base. They should be granted the ability to screen which of their employees is allowed on base? :huh: :wacko:
Jihad Pizza wouldn't care if it stayed in business if the attack were successful. <_<

My reference to Microsoft is a joke. Only someone with Microsoft-ish commitment to security would consider handing over base access control to civilian companies to police themselves - a good policy.
*** According to ozyran's post above, this type of policy is alive and well - post 9/11! (well, apparently, at least at the US Navy Sub Base New London in Groton, CT. :huh: Can you say nuk-U-lar? :blink:
I can guarantee if it happens in Groton, it happens elsewhere.)

It doesn't matter if these delivery people don't have access to classified material or areas. The fact that security clearance for base access has been sluffed off to civilian companies to police themselves IS THE PROBLEM.

The fact that the 9/11 hijackers carried lowly box cutters wasn't the security breach they took advantage of. They took advantage of the policy of appeasing hijackers. Don't confront them!!!!! Let them take the plane where they want and negotiate with them while on the ground.

The fact that relatively unknown delivery people have access to bases . . . even if it is not into classified areas . . . is the problem. WHAT IS BEING CARRIED IN THAT TROJAN HORSE PIZZA DELIVERY TRUCK?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ May 9 2007, 02:09 PM) [snapback]438382[/snapback]</div>

What do we do...

1. secure our borders today
2. monitor movement out of the US too, not just into the US
3. Federal ID card
4. creating an american version of a domestic cia like the Brits have and have used effectively
5. attacking the sources of terror - sorry about that - i view iran as a lynchpin today. without iran terror support dries up significantly. i would do everything in my power to take down arhmedijad.
5. i would take on syria too - isolate them, etc.
6. i would encourage our allies to pressure the terror support structures in the middle east - give israel the green light to go after the bad guys - pressure them locally there in lebanon, in gaza - keep them using their resources to sustain their life and not to grow and plot and plan.
7. i would state that any ally that acts with our enemies will truly face an angry America -
8. pressure putin to get smart - he has more to lose by supporting iran etc than by supporting us. no more playing peter against paul.

now with france, GB, and Germany on our side it will be easier - economic sanctions, etc.

i would also do my best to increase world oil supply and lower prices as much as possible knowing the main source of income for iran is oil. i think saudia arabia and some other producers can be persuaded to do that.

just some stuff off the top of my head.

back to work


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ May 9 2007, 02:09 PM) [snapback]438382[/snapback]</div>

also,
let it be known that if any stupid move like using wmd's in the US of A would elicit a similar but greater response from us. mecca/medina/whatever - wherever that nuke was made and down the line - goodbye. i leave every option open - and would broadcast that loud and clear.

the same for my allies.

done

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 9 2007, 02:06 PM) [snapback]438380[/snapback]</div>

So what did you think about the Dept. of Homeland Security cutting funding to NYC by 40%, while DHS funds were used to buy treadmills and stationary bikes for police and firefighters in places like Florida and Indiana?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 9 2007, 02:17 PM) [snapback]438443[/snapback]</div>

[gulp]

Honestly, I don't think that fear of retribution has anything to do with deterring terrorist attacks, any more than the fear of potentially facing the death penalty dissuades murderers here at home.

Also, I fear that the true plan is, actually, to slowly bleed us to death (while making a profit from if possible). 'They' want us to die with a whimper, not a bang.

Keeping folks like yourself in 'hawk' mode is a *key* part of this strategy. It costs our enemies very, very little and immediately incites the proposal of increasingly involved, and costly, and complicated solutions which would probably turn out unworkable in any event (not to mention, which usually inhibit the free flow of ideas and merchandise, so crucial to our speed-oriented way of life). I mean, think about it...six guys try something like this and now probably every delivery person will have to be screened and fingerprinted by an independent company, and then the information will have to be catalogued and updated and maintained...
(and, by then, there will be some other plot that surfaces).

I don't disagree with everything you've written. But I do wonder if, deep down, we've actually become too risk-averse to act, if we assume a 'tough guy' posture and our bluff is called.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 9 2007, 03:17 PM) [snapback]438443[/snapback]</div>

While you are attacking Iran and Syria, with a military that is already stretched to the breaking point fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, how will you ensure security in the homeland? You certainly won't have any National Guard or Reserve assets available!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 9 2007, 03:17 PM) [snapback]438443[/snapback]</div>

I'd like to know how you increase world oil supply and lower prices? Saudi oil fields are supposedly in decline, and it is questionable whether they are capable of exceeding their current production of 10 million barrels/day. Demand will nearly double that by 2020.

Solving the world's problems isn't easy, is it? But keep at it!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May 9 2007, 11:53 AM) [snapback]438424[/snapback]</div>

1. Picked a day for the attacks when multiple war games "happened" to be going on.
You assume they used that as a criteria. Multiple war games "happen" quite often.

2. Completedly eluded air defence for hours even though standard operating proceedure is for aircraft without transponders to be intercepted within 10 or 15 minutes.
Wartime footing or training scenario standards are not transferable into pre-9/11 peacetime normal operating conditions. If you think that there were Combat Air Patrols flying or sitting at Alert-1 on the ground and able to intercept any "lost" aircraft within 10 or 15 minutes . . . you don't have a very good grip on reality. Even during the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, the Japanese pilots were wondering, 'WHERE THE HELL IS THE ANTI-AIRCRAFT FIRE AND FIGHTER AIRCRAFT?'

3. Caused the collapse of the twin towers from fires that were already going out when no steel and concrete buildings had ever before collapsed due to fire, even the Madrid fire that burned 24 hours.
Funny how these "WTC fires" didn't set off fire alarms prior to the impacts, but the alarms did go off after impact. How did they hide the smoke? The Madrid fire wasn't fueled by thousands of pounds of jet fuel, nor was the steel's protective insulation blown away by the immense forces from a high speed aircraft impact.

4. Managed to completely collapse WTC 7 in a free-fall speed controlled demolition even though it was never hit by a plane
Buildings are not inherently fireproof.

5. Managed to make millions in profit by shorting stock options
If that were the case, the records would be easy to trace.

6. Somehow managed to ensure that all debris from the WTC was transported to China before any tests could be carried out on the steel that would reveal the presence of thermite explosives.
So how did the imaginary "conspirators" miss this 125,000 lbs of WTC steel? It somehow found its way into the 9/11 Memorial on the grounds of Cal Expo in Sacramento.

http://911memorialatcalexpo.org/

Pretty smart, I would say.
Pretty ignorant, I would say.

Hey, shouldn't you be making a trip to your front window and taking a peek through the black-out curtains to see if one of those "unmarked" cars is sitting down the street? :wacko:

 

Some of the scary things to think about :

It took about 2 years to arrest these guys...and as has been said- they were just dumb

There is ALOT going on WE don't know about!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(barbaram @ May 9 2007, 08:37 PM) [snapback]438733[/snapback]</div>

The solution is security access . I worked there for a while and we implemented fairly secure access solutions for military bases. It works. I won't go into the details but the solution is viable. check out there "news room" section.

BTW, in order to get on to a base is not an EZ task. You have to have a Sponsor (i.e. someone who says you can come on). If these guys had a contact then something is wrong. If they intended to blast through security there is no way they could make it very far. In addition to the rent a cops they have serving the access points, they also have military police with automatic guns.

B

 

Here's a couple of pics for the fever swamp guys who take their cues from Rosie ODonnell, who said "fire doesn't melt steel!" (leaving me to wonder just how we make the stuff). This is from the media coverage of a tanker fire in Oakland that caused a freeway overpass to "lose rigidity" and fall.

Back to the Fort Dix terrorists: were these home-grown or the stereotypical young arab men in their late teens to early thirties? I've heard two things, that some were here on expired visas or were illegal, and that they were American Muslims who were radicalized in the last 4 years.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ May 9 2007, 05:02 PM) [snapback]438534[/snapback]</div>

Thank you for your opinion which must have take quite a lot of time to write. You have every right to it, as I have to mine. I think you will agree that no one has a monopoly on the truth. It will take a long time, but the truth will come out in the end.

 

Thank you for your opinion . . .
You're welcome, but it's not my "opinion."

. . . which must have take quite a lot of time to write. . . .
No, the truth isn't hard to find if your mind isn't closed to it.

. . .You have every right to it, as I have to mine . . .
No arguement there.

. . . I think you will agree that no one has a monopoly on the truth . . .
No, but it's funny how the wacked-out conspiracy theories are almost universally way far out to the left.

It will take a long time, but the truth will come out in the end.
WHAT? :huh: You didn't expose the "truth" with your conspiracy theory post? :lol:

Sorry to inform you, the truth came out instantaneously.
When the first aircraft hit the WTC, tens of thousands of New Yorkers saw it 'live and in person.'
When the second plane hit, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF NEW YORKERS SAW IT.
So what did conspiracy theorists say? "No airplanes flew into the WTC."
In other words, hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers had an instantaneous mass hallucination, and TV cameras captured it.
Which sounds more crazy? Aircraft or mass hallucinations beamed around the world?