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Ford & GM adopt the Tesla Supercharger network standard (NACS).

Discussion in 'EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion' started by Zythryn, Jun 9, 2023.

  1. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    I just hope Tesla drivers don’t start committing hate crimes towards non-Tesla use of their chargers….
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    No need. With rare exception, there is plenty of capacity ... and Tesla access coming online for the CCS-1 chargers. With the IRA, there should be enough subsidies to fix the legacy CCS-1 chargers.

    As for the honorable EV competition, they face some challenging business issues. The competition does cover areas where Tesla does not offer a solution. But for the 25% tariff "trade wars are easy to win," China would be the new Toyota.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #62 bwilson4web, Sep 12, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2023
  3. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    @bwilson4web Here in Cali/Southern Cali they can be substantial but substantially full.

    Biggest complaint among my wife’s coworkers seems to be finding their own car, (of which I recommend adding stickers)….
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Trucks are deadlier to pedestrians. Mostly because of height and design of the front leads to people more likely going under the vehicle. In that regard, the Cybertruck isn't much better than the F150. It should have better forward visibility. That might lead to less collisions, if the driver is paying attention. The windshield and A-pillar design likely is going to have the same side view impediment that other trucks have, which blocks sight of pedestrians during turns. It did so in my Prius.
    https://www.kbb.com/car-news/safety-study-suvs-pickups-more-likely-to-hit-kill-pedestrians-when-turning/

    Ford and the rest could improve the forward visibility of all their trucks by lowering the leading edge of the hood, whether frunk or engine bay underneath. Like pick-ups of the late 90s once did. That isn't being bought now though. Until Congress decides to make the manufacturers to all change, individual ones will be worried about lost sales if they go alone.
     
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  5. sylvaing

    sylvaing Senior Member

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    Depending on how and where the chargers are opened, it might increase range anxiety (more like, time to charge anxiety) as some vehicles will occupy two stalls. Sometime, when I get to a supercharger, there are only a few empty one. Depending how cooperative users will be to move their vehicles to optimize the use of the Superchargers, it might creates some "sparks". I know that personally, if I can move to a different spot so two none Tesla can charge side by side, it's a win for everyone.
     
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  6. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    That's a good point. Not only people going under the vehicle but lower profile cars too. Some trucks drive through heavy snow on occasion & that might require 2 different models, one with a lower front end & one with a higher front end. Unlikely to happen as it would double R&D / crash test costs.
    .
     
  7. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    does jaguar make an ev? :p
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The E-Pace.
     
  10. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Jaguar .... owned by Tata
    .
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Opening SuperChargers has two edges:
    • Tesla adapters that allow any Tesla since 2021 and some like mine, can be retrofitted to use CCS-1 chargers. Not great but a way to 'fill the gap'. For example, new the 240 mi EV range could easily reach the Tunica casinos south of Memphis. But aged, the current 215 miles requires either a detour to a fast DC charger or sitting at an L2 charger to add the 25-30 miles needed to reach the casinos. However, for ~$500, I can add a CCS-1 adapter and updated controller to get a 50 kW charge in Tuscumbia ... in effect returning the original range.
    • CCS-1 cars have no universal adapter to Superchargers but must wait on "Magic Dock" units. A handful have been deployed and they work. But the +20,000 Tesla chargers otherwise remain unusable by existing, CCS-1 EVs. The other EVs have to add Tesla sockets and software to use SuperChargers. For example, my 2017 BMW i3-REx will never charge at a Tesla SuperCharger unless I make my own adapter. But the 48 kW charging limit and 106 mi EV range of the BMW makes this pointless.
    Bob Wilson
     
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Sounded like those companies adopting NCAS will be supplying CCS adapters with cars until they get the part situation sorted.
     
  13. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    $500 !?!

    yikes .... thinking eventually the Chinese will undercut that by maybe a factor of 3 .... hopefully.
    .
     
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    It requires a new Tesla socket controller, modified wire harness, and the Tesla plug to CCS-1 socket adapter. Reports are it requires a software reload, or documented that way. I might get one for less but that is my budget number.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #74 bwilson4web, Sep 22, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2023
  15. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Honda/Acura will use NACS because they're based on the Ultium platform for the Prologue/ZDX. Would be strange if it didn't adopt it.

    As @sylvaing said, it's the 800V manufacturers for now that are holding back. Tesla runs high amps through their Superchargers to get the desired peak power. In addition, Tesla's charging curves only demand peak amps for a short period of time with a triangular charging curve. The other cars will hold peak charger for longer but also, rely on higher voltage to achieve those power numbers rather than amps.

    Looking at Polestar and BMW with their 250kW and 200kW peak power at 400Vs, I'm wondering what station out there will be able to handle that other than SuC? I guess any of the newer 800V stations that can support 500A could do so but looking on PlugShare, the complaints I see from low DC power are from 400V vehicles.

    E.g. 60kW out of an ID.4 at a 150kW 800V station. Sure, their theoretical max is 90kW so yeah they're underperforming but to expect to max out the ID.4's 135kW (updated software) peak power at a 150kW 800V station is not possible. And since the mainstream buyer doesn't know the difference, they see that they're getting less than half of the peak charge rate rather than actually getting 2/3rds of their potential peak power.

    It also saves weight in terms of wiring and an additional DC-DC converter. Porsche/Audi went the converter route as an optional extra (standard for 2022 I believe) so you said HMG cheaped out but at least 400V charging is included. With the Taycan, if you bought the first 3 years and didn't know you had to order the DC-DC converter, you'd be stuck getting 50kW at 400V because that's what Porsche included. The option bumps it up to 150kW.

    HMG just used existing hardware (i.e. rear electric motor and rear inverter) to step up the voltage to 800V so it's limited to the power of the rear motor and inverter. On the E-GMP cars, that's 105kW or thereabouts (Not sure if the EV6 GT or Ioniq5 N will be able to charge at a higher rate given their larger rear motor).

    I-Pace. E-Pace is their entry level gas SUV (yeah.. totally botched that naming convention lol). It sits under the F-Pace "compact" luxury SUV. (I guess the E-Pace is either sub-compact or on the smaller side of compact. The F-Pace looks more mid-size to me but I guess everything's grown in size).
     
  16. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    One of the cars Waymo uses is the I-Pace.
     
  17. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    #77 Zythryn, Oct 5, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2023
    iplug likes this.
  18. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Once again sad to say .... Toyota ... left in the dust
    .
     
  19. sylvaing

    sylvaing Senior Member

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    More like, stayed in the dust. Left would mean they had no say in being in the dust or not.
     
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  20. sylvaing

    sylvaing Senior Member

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    Pedantic, but Genesis too.

    However, Hyundai/Kia/Genesis would be the last to access the Superchargers it seems, even worse for those with one of those EV already with a date of Q1 2025.