Ford Chairman says HOV Legislation is a 'Buy Japanese' Bill

This discussion is leaning toward my utopian society. No tax breaks or HOV passes for the Prius, but also no tax breaks and CAFE exemptions for big, overweight SUVs.

Extrapolate that to everything. A clean slate of rules and an income tax form that fits on a postcard. I would gladly give up every tax deduction I'm entitled to if we could simplify the system and have everyone pay their fair share. Doesn't have to be a flat tax, just a simple tax. Simplify my life and remove a ton of power from the politicians. The last 7 words in the previous sentence cover why this is not likely to happen. But it sure would be nice.

 

oh really? like motorcycles?? they are legal here in WA even if the rider is alone. i think we should make it determined by passenger miles per gallon. iow, a Prius with a single driver would be rated at 55 pmpg, a Prius with 2 people would be rated at 110 pmpg...

then set the HOV lanes for say...45 pmpg...(i set it low so hummer only needed 4 people to qualify... :mrgreen: )

 

Excellent point and a great idea about passenger miles per gallon.

 

the tougher the better!!

 

They could set up something based on something more realistic than the EPA and have a sticker that some states are implementing or a different licences plate. I am not sure that I am in favor of the whole idea at this point but it can be done.

 

super car

Many thanks to Dave in WA for the Big3 supercar graphic.

Follow up note to Mr. Ford: Ok, the concept was publised (and paid for by the US taxpayer) in 2000, so where's the product? Its been almost 5 years. Clearly, your suppliers would have been able to produce components by now. Come'on Bill, you can do it!

 

Mmmm... motorcycles.... I'd lean toward Nope. They take up almost as much lane space as does a car, so that doesn't help traffic congestion. Allow them only if they're in pairs, side-by-side :_>

Doing it by passenger-MPG seems impractical to enforce.

 

Vanpools even better the Hybrids for Enviroment

I agree with bookrats. I love my Prius, but I still leave it in the garage most days and take the vanpool that I operate with 8 other people. Give incentives for hybrids, but don't crowd the HOV lanes with a bunch of single occupancy hybrids doing 59 miles per hour to maximize their mpg. My vanpool beats my hybrid every time because of the number of wasteful/polluting SUV's it keeps off the road. I wonder if someone will ever make a hybrid vanpool?

 

Re: Vanpools even better the Hybrids for Enviroment

But what if this HOV lane incentive convinces eight non-vanpool-type-potential-SUV-buyers to purchase eight Prii instead? Sure beats the hell out of your vanpool as there would be eight less SUVs and eight more Prii on the road doing all the other non-commute stuff too.

A Prii pollutes at 1/10 that of a regular new car. I’m sure the van you are pooling in is polluting probably twice that of the average new car. So, to ballance it out, you may need to stuff your van with 20 or so folks. Plus your van would be driving extra high polluting miles picking-up passengers and dropping them off. The Prii would be straight to and from shots.

Taking it to the Nth degree: IF all cars on the road were Prii type cars, we would only have congestion and happy drivers. Serious air pollution problems would be a thing of the past, oil prices would take a nosedive and emergency rooms would see a decrease in serious auto accident casualties.

The number of these single occupant HOV stickers are limited and it all goes away in 2008. What’s the big deal?!

California has it right in the statement it is making with this law . . .
“THIS IS THE TYPE OF VEHICLE WE WANT ON OUR ROADS IN CALIFORNIAâ€

 

Let's cut through all the complaints about HOV lanes, the Ford chairman is wingeing because Toyota is producing a car thet people want in preference to a Ford and he doesn't like losing sales.

His remedy is simple, give us a Ford (in Europe as well as the States) that looks as good, delivers equal or better running costs and emmissions and is cheaper to buy. That's his best answer to the problem, it's called the market!

 

when looking at the passenger miles per gallon, only then do we get a sense of how revolutionary the Prius is. after all, California practically had to invent a new category of polution level when the Prius came around because the Prius blew the existing standard out of the water. hence the SULEV rating. what rates as a ULEV??? how about the honda civic hybrid...

 

The complaints from Ford really make me wonder when the heck they will finally offer a hybrid *CAR*.

It sure sounds like they will only offering hybrid SUVs.

In other words, they won't have a vehicle that meets the 45 MPG requirement for a very long time. If they did, they'd try to convince the legislation to include it later on. But instead, nothing, not a single word about a non-truck-like hybrid. Originally they were hyping that the Taurus replacement would be available as a hybrid. But not anymore. Why?

Wouldn't it be better for them to simply remain quiet rather than drawing attention to themselves. Of course, that could be the point... to let the world they will be offering a hybrid SUV any way they can.

Oh well. At least Ford is actually trying. GM certainly isn't.

 

Like John said, the needless SUV culture will continue. A lot of people will feel less guilty about driving an SUV thinking it's great as it is a hybrid and get around 20mpg while they could get around 50 driving a smaller but functional car like the Prius.

 

Well gol durn it. I bin thinkin about cuzzin Homer. He done killed both his mama and his daddy with a shotgun. When he appeared befor the judge there was ol cuzzin Homer askin the cort for mersee because he was a poor orphan sins his parents wuz ded.

Now aint that similar to whut Bill ford wants. He maid the Linkun Blackwud, and he also maiks sum of the biggist hugest gas guzzlers on the planit. Now he is complainin because the guvvimint is rewardin folks who buy cars that dont guzzil much gas. In fac, my Preeis sips the stuff. Mabey ol Ford is gettin some gaff from them friends of hiz that brings the oil heer. After all, les gas guzzled, les oil them fellers can sel. withc meens less monee tham guys tak home in bonisis.

Insted of crybabyin about the reward Preeis drivirs is gittin for being smart and buyin cars that dont guzzil too much gas why dont he build them himselfe and quit bicchin about the success of the other car companeez?

Arizonz Charlie

 

I think I found the answer to that, it's taken me a while to type this all up, but here we go:

BASE PRICE OF ALL FORD VEHICLES

CARS/MINIVAN:
Focus (04) $13,550
Mustang (04) $18,775
Crown Victoria $24,345
Taurus $21,145
Freestar $24,600
AVERAGE BASE PRICE FOR A FORD CAR/MINIVAN: $20,483

TRUCKS:
Ranger $15,195
F150 $22,250
F150 Herritage $20,405
SuperDuty $23,185
E Series Van $25,525
AVERAGE BASE PRICE FOR A FORD TRUCK: $21,312

SUVS:
Escape $19,855
Explorer SportTrac $24,355
Explorer $27,245
Expedition $33,295
Excursion $37,810
Freestyle (05 Coming Soon) $29,000
AVERAGE BASE PRICE FOR A FORD SUV: $28,593.33

NOW...
If you ran a car company that had sub-par sales and cars that are either criticized (SUVs, especially Excursion), non-unique (Taurus, Ranger, etc)or specialties that cost more than they're most likely worth (Thunderbird, GT, etc) wouldn't you want to "conform" to the latest trend in the most profitable way possible?
Take the popular belief that a hybrid vehicle goes for $2000-4000 more than its non hybrid counterpart and he'll be making a LOT more for every hybrid SUV he sells than for every say, hybrid Taurus replacement he sells.

***This is just my opinion, but to note, the base price information I used for this example was found at www.ford.com and was current as of the date and time of this original post. Specialty vehicles such as the GT, Thunderbird were not included as that buyers market is much smaller. Most 05 models were not distinctly posted with a base price so I used all 04 info on the website***

 

I recall a commercial in the not so distant past where Ford says his car of choice would be a V8 Mustang. He could care less about efficiency or the environment.

Last time I checked, Prius didn't need any help selling.

I know it's a little mean spirited but I've always said that the only thing that keeps the American auto manufactures in business is American's blind willingness to "buy American only". If it weren't for that, Ford would be a different company today.

 

Actually, ULEV is fairly dirty (relatively) -- the scale, from dirtiest to cleanest, is:

• LEV
• ULEV
• SULEV
• PZEV
• AT PZEV ('04 Prius)
• ZEV (zero emissions vehicle)
  • 
    This can be seen graphically in this document.
    
    Consulting the CA EPA site, both the '04 Prius and the Honda Civic Hybrid are rated AT PZEV (The Prius Classic and the 2-seat Honda Insight are both SULEV).
    
    Various standard gas vehicles that are PZEV (cleaner than SULEV) are various '04 Ford Focus models with the 2.3L engine (don't know if they're specially built for California), the Mazda 3, and the 2004 Subaru Legacy L Wagon. (This is a long list.)
    
    I wasn't able to find any ULEV cars listed at the CA EPA site -- they're basically rating "the best". I'm assuming ULEV would be a standard sedan made in the last 5 years, but I don't know.