Ford C Max, Prius killer?

I have never read about those. Do you have any link with details?

 

I thought it is a different car. Looks like a rear wheel smoking so it can't be the C-Max hybrid.

 

How Vehicles Are Tested

For years the EPA test facility didn't have a dynamometer to test 4WD and AWD vehicles. They had to disconnect one axle and adjust the rollers to simulate the effects of all 4 wheels spinning.

 

If you are going to keep the car for a long time remember Ford Quality does not equal Toyota Quality. I've owned 2 new Fords, regretted both purchases.

 

Since I started recording my fuel economy, I have driven three vehicles. A 2005 Prius, 2000 Ranger2WD, and a 2006 HHR while combined fuel economies of 46, 17, and 23 mpg. I got, and am getting, 55, 22, and 32 with them. A 20% to 30% improvement over EPA. No reason that should expect to worse in another vehicle I use as a daily driver. If you are keeping fuel usage records, that is a better way to judge what you'll get in another vehicle than going by magazine and fuelly reports. None of those people are driving your daily route.

 

Which models?
With the Ranger and 1996 Taurus, the only issue that was manufacturer linked was the DFPE sensor. It measured exhaust flow for the EGR, and was an easy, cheap fix if you could pull the codes yourself. The Taurus had some other 'quirks', but they could be traced back to when I was rear ended a week after getting the car. The minivan buckled its hood, and, it was years before I realized it, bent the Taurus frame. Still kept it for 7 years and 130k+ miles. The Ranger also remained in the family for 100k miles.

 

You guys are a jaded bunch. My present vehicle gets 17 MPG (city, winter) to 21 MPG (summer, interstate driving). Mileage in the 40MPG range makes it sound like I would never use gasoline again.

 

??

That said, I went by the Tustin Ford Dealer today ... any by VERY good stroke of luck (rather than talk to your average shloe moe sales liar) I hooked up w/ Ford's buyer guy ... and he came across VERY knowledgable. He says the plug in C-Max will get the very same epa as the C-max hybrid !!! 47 / 47mpg. AND ... they had a demo! Long story short, they have an advanced package that has both parking assist, as well as a 'limited' collision avoidance system, where by if you're on cruise control, you can set a specific number of car lengths to follow, so that if another car (or bolder, or deer) comes in between you and that distance, the system brakes ... just like the PiP ... only less. Still ... pretty nice!
Also, at 6'-5" ... I could definitely notice the head room was 'better' than the V ... and my other half has had issue - upon getting into the V ... so she's willing to go 'check it out'. I was VERY impressed, dispite the noticeably smaller trunk and rear passenger area.

 

"The C-MAX Energi plug-in hybrid's gas-operation, hybrid-mode (aka charge-sustaining mode) combined fuel economy is 43 mpg, said Ford Electrified Vehicles Communications Manager, Wesley Sherwood III today.

108 City MPGe Rating For C-MAX Energi | Hybrid Cars

 

Yeah, if you want a hybrid getting fuel economy in the 40s at least and you're 6' 5", some kind of C Max would seem the best choice.

 

Wow ... and to continue that bit of confusion from the same read

the 47/47 that I heard AND saw on the car's Monroney window sticker clearly contradict the article. Supposedly the new Monroney stickers that come into effect in 2013 are already being used by many auto manufacturers. If I remember to stop by on the way home from work, I'll take a pic of the sticker. With the weight of the extra batteries, I expressed my disbelief that carrying hundreds of pounds of batteries, both plug in & standard hybrid could achieve the same epa.

 

headgasket went on my 90's windstar at 85k, cost me $1800. when i traded it in on a used ranger, salesman said they would not take it unless the gasket was done whether it had failed or not because the auction guys knew that sooner than later they would all fail on that engine.

 

I've had parking assist (parallel and rear-directed side-by-side), adaptive (radar) cruise control, lane keep assist and a pre-collision system (applying seat-belt pretension and full brakes) since May 2009 on my Prius. I believe it has always been available in the V (Five) model since then.

What the C-Max offers is more headroom in front (1.4 inches more) but a bit less legroom (1.8 inches less) than the Prius v. It also offers slightly more headroom in the back than the Prius v (0.8 inches more) and one-half inch more rear legroom than the Prius v. Unfortunately for our family, the C-Max also cuts the rear hiproom by a couple of inches, making it just a bit too tight, and it has only about 70% of the cargo space of the Prius v (with all seats in place), and much of that space is the more useless height vs. width or depth. I get almost 90% of that cargo space in my 2010 Prius, and the only real gain for me (headroom isn't a factor in my family!!) would be an inch and a half of should space (no gain in hiproom) in the back. All of that for a car which has a lower EPA rating and Ford reliability vs Toyota reliability isn't going to make me jump.

I wish it could, but it won't. The reason has mainly to do with the fact I would gain nothing in usability for my family (you have a different view given the difference in headroom!) and lose a good deal in practicality and fuel economy.

 

Sorry to hear that. Ford ended up extending the head gasket warranty to 100k miles. Both my Fords had the 3.0 Vulcan. While not the most powerful or efficient, it had a rep for long life.

 

I don't believe there was this much (good or bad) dialogue over the Volt when it came to market.

SGH-I717R ? 2

 

My blogs are loaded with commentary from back then... lots of it highlighting the refusal to address the very topics now being discussed. It's really odd seeing the "too little, too slowly" concern having played out in full like that.

 

Plenty of threads here PC from around the volt launch with a lot of discussion. .. I think the volt thread record from around the launch time was 1300 replies.. this thread is at 175 replies.. it has a long way to go to reach the volt level of dialogue/debate. Of course 95 of the 1300 were John bashing the volt and 166 were usbseawolf.. so how much dialogue will depend on how much they want to bash the C-Max.

Even if the C-Max is just a dated design full-hybrid and even if its overall efficiency, for most drivers, will be no-where near the Volt's launch efficiency, some vocal users will like it more than the Volt because its not a real threat. Its a decent car and a viable choice for some families needs, especially with its increased room. And since the C-Max hybrid is well understood hybrid concept with near prius in MPG, and since Ford did not talk about any goals early enough for people to get upset that they did not meet them, the C-Max should not draw the same level of venom from some and has less to debate since its a proven concept, just a minor twist on the shape and cost elements.

 

Austingreen, here's another reviewer disappointed in the real world fuel economy he observed:

Driver's Seat: Ford C-Max Hybrid SEL: A smooth ride, but rough fuel numbers - Philly.com

Again, it's still early, and there are only two drivers on Fuelly with C Max Hybrids, but they're averaging 38.6 mpg. Most of the reports I've read about this car have it in the high 30s, not even the low 40s. That's a pretty big difference from the EPA numbers. The fact that this reviewer got 50 mpg when he test drove a Prius suggests that he's not accustomed to flooring it.

I find it peculiar, and I find myself glad I didn't buy a C Max before some real world data started trickling in (although I often find myself wishing I bought a c instead of a v, if you can believe it. I'm glad for the space I have, but that c is a cute car).

 

Just learned in the other thread that the C-max learns a driver's routes. From there it will use the gas and electric at the times for best efficiency for the person's common routes. It is part of the EV+ mode, and can be turned off. Routes get reset with the lifetime fuel economy.
C-Max hybrid to get 47mpg both city/hwy | Page 9 | PriusChat

One of the two C-max owners on Fuelly notes that Ford says not to track fuel economy for the first thousand miles. I thought it was simply do to a break in period, but now I think it's to allow the car enough time to learn the route. The EPA test may be the first route the car knows. Thus the high test numbers. Until the time that the car learns the owner's route, fuel economy won't be the best it can be, and the car may actually use the engine and motor at the worse times. Once the a route is learned, the economy numbers should approach the EPA ones.

Most reviews coming out now likely didn't have the car long enough to use a tank of gas, much less a thousand miles. So they are only seeing the car at its worse in terms of taking advantage of route mapping for economy. (Do the press cars get frustrated?) Even C-maxes in long term test fleets will be this way, since they get passed around the employees.

 

Interesting... Very interesting. Maybe only time will tell.

But its hard to understand why a path-forceascting would nto know what to do on the second trip.. why does it need 1000 miles.. even a very slow learning algorithm would not need that many.