First production photo of Honda Insight released

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Re: New Insight at 65mpg
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[FONT=&quot]From what I’ve read, it uses the Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) hybrid system (the same as the Civic Hybrid) so it should get about the same mileage as the civic hybrid (42mpg??).

Unless they are making it out of aluminum like the first Insight. I wonder how much difference that would make...
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You can also tell from the photo that the rear doors are pretty short.

 

It does not look like an Insight -- no skirts anyway.

It looks like a Prius-Lite.

 

Actually, they're not, if the summaries in Wikipedia are to be believed. (Automobile drag coefficient - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). There for instance the 2005 Chevy Corvette is listed with a Cd of 0.29, compared to the 2004 Prius at 0.26. The Porsche 997 GT3 is listed at 0.30. So Toyota has done a much better job of minimizing aerodynamic drag than the other manufacturers, on what is a more utilitarian car.

The ultimate in aerodynamic force handling at speed is to be seen in F1 car design, where the lift and drag forces are cleverly manipulated using fore and aft spoilers, together with braking, to optimize cornering adhesion and maximize out-of-turn acceleration on straightaways. Also power/weight ratios in these cars are as much or more important than overall aerodynamic drag.

 

Up to 31 mph on electric? The Prius can do up to 42 mph on electric!
"Likely figures" for fuel economy. That means it isn't tested yet, and they are hoping that "65mpg" is what will hit the news, and no one will notice that it only gets 45mpg.

 

At first, the initial definition of a full-hybrid meant that the car would at times, have to be powered by electric only. That is something the current Civic already does and some people hence call the HCH-II a "full hybrid".

Of course, those of us who know better would not call it a full hybrid (it is a power assist hybrid) but the full hybrid definition is understandable and has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

I was told by a Honda Product specialist that the current HCH / IMA powered car cannot creep along on battery alone.

I took this to mean every time the car moves, the gas engine will kick on immediately and will not stop until the car is completely stopped.

Didn't someone here say that creeping along in stop 'n go traffic in an HCH is a drag because the gas motor goes on and off with every creep forward?

Never driven an HCH, obviously, so curious.

Also, it was mentioned the Insight will have IMA like the HCH and will not best the Prius in FE.

 

He's right.

The gen 4 IMA cannot operate on battery power alone at speeds below 25KM/h (15 MPH). However, battery only operation will occur at any speed above this threshold with diminishing effectiveness as speed climbs. Also, since you cannot have more than 5 bars of EV-only operation, this limits the electric only output to little more than 15 HP. This HP just enough to sustain electric only operation at speeds below 50 MPH... or an extra long ev-glide.

This is nowhere near the same "full-hybrid" operation offered by HSD and any derivative of the Gen 4 IMA will continue to be utterly trounced in urban duty by the Prius.

No, it will not best the Prius in stop-n-go FE. But the combined MPG figures include highway duty and that is where it may get its FE edge.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

I'm guessing that if you use similar software and similar wind tunnels you will come up with similar designs minimizing drag. It is a nice looking car (I think I like the style of headlights better than the current Prius).

That said, it could fill a portion of the hybrid market quite well, assuming it
a) gets significantly superior gas mileage (60 mpg would count)
or
b) is under the prius price tag by $3000 or more (number off the top of my head).

For me, I'd get a Prius. Having 2 kids pushes me to a car that will seat 4 (eventual) adults in it. The fact that my rear passengers can have ample leg room AND I don't have to drive the car with the front seat so far forward that my knees are behind my ears is a huge selling point. Add in the 45-50 mpg and you have a winner, baby!

 

In the end though, I don't think the shape of the Prius accounts for ANYWHERE NEAR as much fuel savings as the hybrid system does - compared to the average economy car. Compare a Prius to a Corolla. The increased fuel savings from the aerodynamics might be say 3% for example, but the fuel savings from the hybrid system might be 45% for example. I think the aerodynamics are far over-rated. I'll bet if Toyota put the Prius hybrid system in a Corolla or a Civic, they would get 97% of the fuel efficiency that the Prius gets. I'd rather see a shape that the majority of society loves than a shape that is most-efficient (for 2009,2010 anyhow). Take the Honda Civic Hybrid (HCH) for example. It gets 45mpg HIGHWAY. (FYI: I personally think the GenII Prius styling looks great)

Wow. I'm baffled. Empirical data is empirical data. I'll bet it's the rear end of the Corvette that is creating the drag. I'm most surprised by the Carrera. The Carrera has a very aerodynamic rear, but the windshield is more vertical (spoiler effect). Interesting. Image: http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/P/porsche/911/03-large/05-carrera4-f.jpg
It's interesting how, no matter what humans come up with, no matter how much technology we put into it, in the end we find the answer already exists in nature. In this case, it's called a "fish."
Toyota got the front end right ... Aptera got the rear end right.
http://www.bcnv.org/Conservation/mediavault/Aptera.jpg
http://auto.sohu.com/piclib/toyota/toyota/prius/big/Toyota_Prius008.jpg

Thank you for posting the drag coefficients also.
I am an F1 fan myself, and the aerodynamics of those cars are incredible. It's a completely different situation than the Prius though. In F1, they literally create their own wind tunnel, as they control the air upstream before it encounters the spoilers. (that's what the wings above the spoilers are - they are actually upstream from the spoilers, and they control how the air approaches the spoiler.) If Toyota ever decides to give the Prius 2.5Gs of additional downforce, we can borrow the technology.

 

people are mixing up british and us gallons, which are different.... It should have mid 40's mpg according to Honda... It is supposed to be "cheap" hybrid and sure looks like cheap Prius to me.

It is going to be considerably slower than Prius and get lower mpg, for less money.

 

I don't know, folks.
It looks pretty much the same as the concept, save for chunkier door handles and the fish-lip being the same finish and color as the body. The vent at the bottom of the front bumper is sexier in the concept image, but I think everything else is close, given the perspective is rotated a bit.
I think it looks good, but then I see attractive Prius styling all over it. I also don't think it's as as small as a Fit anywhere but in its ICE size.

 

Actually, it is a smaller car than the current gen Civic Hybrid and more inline with the dimensions of the FIT. You have to see it in person to get a proper idea of its actual dimensions. The ICE remains smaller than anything offered in the FIT, too.

I think Prius owners don't have much to fear or to be concerned about. The Insight II is only meant to be a "Prius fighter" in the minds of the press and the folks who ride their automotive drama and sensationalism.

It is a smaller car in every respect and hardly a direct competitor. The upcoming Civic Hybrid III (Gen 6 IMA) will be the closest competitor.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

How I think the 8th Gen 2006-2008 Honda Civic was basically designed - GM-Volt: Chevy Volt Forum

 

The mini Ford grille just doesn't really do it for me. And it's
a Honda, therefore not HSD, and as mentioned really cannot do
the "stealth" thing which is THE ability to have in stop-n-crawl
traffic [besides sneaking up on your friends in the parking lot].
.
_H*

 

I'm sure it will be smaller than the Prius but does anybody have any official information regarding wheel base, passenger space/cargo space, headroom etc.?

 

I've heard the Insight II will be a small car category in Japan (less than 170cm:67inch width) same as the Fit and it'll be compact size.
The 3G Prius will be wider than the current 2G Prius and it'll be still mid-size vehicle.

Ken@Japan

 

The HI-II measurements (converted to inches from metric):
Length: 172.1 inches
Width: 66.8 in. inches
Height: 56 inches

Roughly 4-5 inches shorter than the HCH-II and also with a 2 inch smaller track.

Cheers;

MSantos