FIRST DRIVE REPORT: 2016 TOYOTA MIRAI

The rep may have been thinking "life of vehicle". I have never seen that phrase defined by any manufacturer, but 10 years or 150k miles seems a reasonable one. In which case, the rep wasn't lying. They are hoping the car has been sent off to the scrap yard well before then, and the people have bought another Toyota.

 

So, we should be on the lookout for Mirai fire destroying entire neighborhoods, meanwhile, this just in! no damage to the neighborhood though, : Nissan LEAF Fire In Flower Mound, Texas

 

All cars can catch fire, and the fire can start from something like an car interior cleaner causing a window switch, which all the different flavors have, to short. I don't expect a hydrogen car to be any more prone to catching fire.

 

Who said sales rep? See guessing again! No this came from one of the technical reps for Toyota who is at the test drives for The Mirai.

 

So you know more then the employees of Toyota?

 

Does the sticker state fuel tanks? I have no idea what that date is for, I am just stating what was told to us, and that the tanks are carbon fiber and will last the life of the car.

 

no, just told the facts.......there was no mind games, after all the buyers of The Mirai are going to be well educated individuals with higher then most incomes.

 

Car Fires happen all the time, but the Tesla fires were made to be a bigger thing then they were. The Mirai will not be anymore of a threat to society then the Tesla's are.

 

Did they say what exactly they meant by life of the car?
The average age of a car registered in the US is over 11 years. I don't know what manufacturers mean by life of the car, but I bet the average US car on road is past it.

 

Not saying they're more prone. They could very well be less prone, but WHEN one does catch fire will it be a small annoyance with localised damage or will the neighbouring properties be damaged when the tank valve vents off or even ruptures? A claim for a burnt out shell in a traditional car will also include significant damage to third party property if a Mirai burns.

Nobody is answering that and carefully skirting the issue. That's given me my answer. In the unlikely event a Mirai catches fire (for whatever reason) it'll go up like nothing else. I'll let the insurance industry call the shots here. They see through marketing fud cos they'll be the ones actually paying out for the damage(s) - however 'unlikely' these may be.

 

I would assume that the life of a Toyota is longer then some other brands. So if the average is 11 years old, I would say 15 or more years for Toyota's.

 

I'm positive the engineers have done all that they could to ensure a hydrogen car is as likely to catch fire as a gasoline one at worse. Any published material to that affect isn't readily available to the public. There might be 'public' published papers in peer reviewed engineering journals, but they have a pricey paywall to most ley persons. The only thing readily available are some PR/demostration videos illustrating how bad a gasoline fire can be. Not that I blame them for making them. Fire elicits a strong emotional response in many, and many still think of the Hindenburg in conjunction to hydrogen, while being oblivious to what gasoline is capable of. The situation in those videos just aren't a likely to occur on their own without intervention of some type. They could happen in an accident, but there is also a lot more variables going on then.

This is what will likely happen in the event that a hydrogen FCEV somehow catches fire. The tanks won't rupture, but if they are exposed to the heat for a period of time, the hydrogen pressure inside the tanks will rise. There is a safety device that will vent the tank well before the tank itself gives. The device will vent the gas outside the car and up into the air. The venting gas will likely catch fire, and it is high, and can last well over a minute if the tanks were full, but it will only damage items above the car.

So, it won't be bad on a town street except for trees and maybe power lines. It will be really bad inside a house garage, but the fire alone is pretty bad at this point.

So would I, but that is not what the manufacturer will say if you could pin them down on giving a definitive value. Including Toyota. The rep you spoke with said the tank will last the life of the car, because by their accounting the car's lifespan itself will be expired before the tank's.

 

Hmmm.....Hindenburg keeps being brought up. Hindenburg accident was in 1937!!
We are in 2015/2016. How can one reference the Hindenburg against the Mirai. One is so much more advanced in safety then the other.

 

I'm thinking the flame properties of H2 gas are better than other current fuels:

Hydrogen Leak Occurs at Linde’s Emeryville Fuel Cell Bus Filling Station

but HIGH PRESSURE tank explosions are another matter:

Korean CNG Bus Explosion Caught On Camera

 

It's a mixed bag. H2 rises where traditional garage hazards like NG and probably gasoline vapor is heavier than air and falls. That's why garage vents are near the floor but that won't work well if a significant H2 release occurs.

High pressure H2 released through a small opening or nozzle can often self-ignite. In fact, I recall that this is what happened in the Emeryville incident which you linked to although it isn't mentioned in that early news report. I read a failure analysis report about it. A safety pressure release valve was assembled using a metal part that was not rated for use with H2 and it failed due to steel embrittlement.

H2 also has a wide range of H2 to air ratio within which it is flamingo or explosive compared to NG or gasoline vapor.

H2 flames can be difficult to see and might only be noticed because of the heat from the burning if the leak is small.

 

I'll wait for the Youtube video when an anti fuel cell member confronts someone driving a Toyota Mirai, just like: this Guy

 

This guy is really mad about not being able to buy the Mirai in New York! So he takes it out on the musician

 

That leak seems well controlled, but what if you've got luggage in the trunk? Does it matter or would it cause more of an issue?

 

You need to by flame resistant luggage!