FIRST DRIVE REPORT: 2016 TOYOTA MIRAI

OK. That first part sound fair.

I thought the point was jobs in Japan. Does this create american jobs? I mean other than the construction jobs to build the hydrogen stations, that may starve out better private or government use of money that would help the economy more.

I can't get too exited about tax dollars, its only like $126 Million next year. I don't want it to go back up to the higher funding levels though. Let's do this and see if its the future, or like jetpacks, a promise that wasn't delivered because they were too expensive.

I don't think the goal should be to keep raising taxes and the deficit though. In 2009 the DOE funds for research centers were redirected to hydrogen so that their would be 50,000 fcv by 2017. I would rather have those research centers. I think the congress did show the secretary of energy, that if he spoke out against their pet projects, they would take away his priorities. Good if you want the DOE to rubber stamp pork, but bad if you actually want an independent DOE spending on good priorities.

I think you are thinking gen I. Toyota made money on the gen II.

I think we should move forward on the test and see what happens to the price of stations. I don't think we should add anouther $8000 federal money per car (per request from toyota) or up the CARB hydrogen budget from $20M/year (per the carb 2015 status report saying it wasn't enough). Let's just see what happens and if people like the cars in 3 years with current funding.

My guess is in 2018, Toyota and CARB will find something possitive to say, and will be talking about 20,000 cars a year by 2024 if government funding goes up. But lets see what happens.

 

It is either to be a gimmick, or worries of water on winter roads.

 

I suspect it does continually drain.
The extra release recommended at the end of the trip is probably just to get rid of the last bit that doesn't drain automatically?

At least I hope it doesn't store up 8oz/two miles, that could add up quick.

 

I think the magic drain button just turns on a fan (which can be heard) to blow residual water out of the fuel cell stack and draining tubing and pan under the car. Maybe it creates a bit more run off than an A/C drain would after the car is turned off and parked? I don't recall other FCV having this feature so I suspect it's not especially important.

 

All I can think of is an automated sound, like the in reverse chime, only a voice.

Your new taxpayer funded and heavily-subsidized car tell you "I have to pee real bad, please turn the fan on"

after 5 miles of driving it says louder "Push the Friggin Button"

 

That would make sense especially during freezing temps.

How does a FCV provide heat? Does the stack give off any BTU's or will it use an electric unit?

 

I'm thinking FCV will prevail for long distance interstate trucking and regional distribution routes that are well out of the range of BEV's. Local delivery, buses, etc. don't need the range, quick refill, etc of a FCV. There is a local pilot program using wireless charging on EV buses. The batts provide 120 miles of range but the daily route is 160. Wireless charging for 12 minutes at each end of the route several times during the day will make up the difference.

 

PEM Fuel cells are approximately 55% efficient. That means is plenty of heat after they have been going for awhile, but, this will likely have a fairly big start up penalty from an electric unit.

 

The stack gives off heat but apparently the coolant loop for the fuel stack doesn't get nearly as hot as it would in a conventional engine so it is harder to use the waste heat via a conventional heat exchanger core for warming the cabin efficiently.

Toyota filed a patent recently describing how to build a climate control system for cars with fuel cell stacks but I'm unsure if that technology made it into the Mirai.

 

The fan helps evaporate the water.

 

We were told it is to help control pooling of water if you park in a garage, the fan is near the tail pipe.

 

That makes sense. I couldn't really tell where the fan noise was originating.

 

Did I read that right? It produces 4 ounces of water every mile? A 100 mile run would produce 400 ounces or 11 kg of water? I'm no good at maths but that can't be right? 11kg?

Really going to love all that water spread over icy roads in winter. Great.

 

But it's warm water.... So if we can get enough fuel cell cars on the road they will melt the snow and ice and keep the roads clear without requiring snow plows.

Gasoline engines emit about half that much water per mile but at a higher temperature so it comes out as vapor rather than as a stream of water.

If this becomes a problem rather than a solution then maybe Toyota can turn on that fan in the winter to help flash freeze the water inside the drainage pan and then add a blender motor and blade in order to sprinkle shaved ice instead of water.

 

It should help the drought in California

 

rounded 1 kg of hydrogen should produce 9 kg of water H2O attomic weight is 18, H2 is 2. The mirai should convert 1 kg of h2 + 8kg of O2 to 9 kg of water in 67 miles. That's 13.4 kg in 100 miles, or 473 ounces of water. You will produce over 200 ounces of water burning e10 in a 50 mpg car.

 

You should see how even hot water vapor from exhaust freezes on Minnesota roads when it gets really cold
That said, they don't have to concern themselves with this until they start building H2 stations and selling FCVs in northern states, or high altitudes.

 

Joking aside, 4-5 ounces of water per mile maybe sounds like a lot but a mile is a long distance. Even if all cars were fuel cells on a busy freeway I don't think there will be much of a real problem.

You see recently started gasoline cars dripping water and blowing visible water vapor out their tailpipes on city streets and that doesn't seem to cause much of a practical problem compared to the friction heat of tires and radiated engine and exhaust heat melting the snow and ice on the road. Since fuel cells run cooler and radiate less waste heat they might actually cause less of a problem in winter with slush creation than gas cars.

 

Car and Driver has a first drive report in their September issue.
They report 57mpge, but were doing performance testing. Which can also explain the 270 mile range they got after fill ups, but you can't get 100% fill up and fast with high pressure gases.