Falwell dead...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ May 15 2007, 05:48 PM) [snapback]442882[/snapback]</div>

Pretty cushy job: Representing somebody who doesn't exist. But I'm curious about your implying that because his job was to interpret the gospel, that he was right in his interpretation. Some people do their jobs well, others do their jobs poorly, and still others collect their pay without doing their job at all.

The job of religion is to teach us how to live together in peace, love, and harmony. Falwell collected his pay but never did that job. But to give him credit, there certainly are damn few examples of preachers who do that job. Religion mostly preaches intolerance and division. But Falwell took it to an extreme.

Billy Graham, to his credit, was no worse than average. That's not saying much. But he was no Falwell.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 15 2007, 09:32 PM) [snapback]443062[/snapback]</div>

Amen bro.

 

There's still a lot of hate in the world, judging from this thread.

Jerry Falwell did not isolate individuals in any of his ramblings (that I mostly disagreed with), and even the "9/11 is God's punishment on us" statements are usually trotted out without any consideration of the context of his views (like the founders of this nation, he believed that God cannot punish a "nation" in an afterlife, so justice was meted out to the nation's people in "real time", and tragedies like 9/11 or tornados, hurricanes and the like are manifestations of God's punishment .... that's not my theology, but its not "hate" speech).

I didn't know him, but the folks I know who did liked him as a person even if they disagreed with his politics.

Falwell did lead a movement to get conservative Christians as involved in the political process as the liberal Christians had been over the years. Daniel Berrigan and Robert Drinan pre-dated Falwell's political activity by quite a few years.

In our democracy, disagreement is not hate. Falwell may have said some things I disagree with, but its hard for me to think of anything he said that, in the context of who he was and his beliefs, would show that he actually harbored hate for others. Comparing anyone in modern American political life to Hitler, Pol Pot or Stalin is a sign of detachment from reality, or incredible ignorance.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ May 15 2007, 02:06 PM) [snapback]442567[/snapback]</div>

<div align="CENTER">I think I will let this cartoon speak for me at first:


Having posted that, I can say as a Christian, a Preacher, and one who was personally told that I would go to hell by Jerry Falwell, (yes, he really did say that to me, when I was preaching in Lynchburg once on how the church needs to be more open minded), I won't say I am glad he is dead.

What I am glad, is that his voice is silent. He took what the Bible wrote about tolerance, at least what Christ stood for, and twisted it for his own agenda. Good riddance to that sort of close minded thinking. </div>


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ May 15 2007, 08:48 PM) [snapback]442882[/snapback]</div>

Which he screwed up so bad. WHERE did CHRIST say, 'Hate thy neighbor'?

Jerry was a man with an agenda; his. And he made millions doing that, and in doing so, lost many souls, who got turned off by his attacking style of ministry. I am not sure where he ended up, but if it's heaven, I bet he is surprised by who is there.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ May 15 2007, 09:04 PM) [snapback]442892[/snapback]</div>

'God never changes' ? Except where He changed His word, if you believe the Bible. We have been through this time and time again. loveittoomuch, you need to, really, you need to research that of which you hold so high. The Bible is flawed, mistake ridden, and filled with myths treated as, well, gospel.

I have pointed out, to you and your type, again and again where the mistakes are; simple questions you (and those like you), can not answer: Here is one, real simple, that you can't answer:

Where is the Apocrypha? Why was it in the 1611 King James Bible, but removed by 1720? Did God call down a edit on His perfect word? Is that possible? Or...is it that MAN wrote the Bible, and therefore has put man's POV in it?


I have more, but why bother?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 15 2007, 09:50 PM) [snapback]442928[/snapback]</div>

Very well said.


<div align="CENTER">








</div>

 

I like Tj.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ May 15 2007, 09:04 PM) [snapback]442892[/snapback]</div>

Let us for a moment entertain the idea that we are on the same page with belief in your god. Could it not also then be possible that god "took" Falwell because he DID make "God's word something that it was not"? I could argue that hypothesis as vehemently as you could argue yours, and neither of us could be proven right or wrong by each other or anyone else.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ May 16 2007, 02:14 AM) [snapback]443117[/snapback]</div>

Did not isolate individuals?

"Falwell was a controversial figure for his theological, political and social beliefs. After the September 11, 2001 attacks, Falwell said on the 700 Club, "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'" Fellow evangelist Pat Robertson concurred with his sentiment.[31] After heavy criticism, Falwell apologized.[32] As for homosexuality, Falwell remarked, "AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals." Falwell's ghostwriter, Mel White, said Falwell remarked about gay protesters, "Thank God for these gay demonstrators. If I didn't have them, I'd have to invent them. They give me all the publicity I need."[33]

No isolation there...

So he didn't actually hate homosexuals, he just considered it appropriate and "just" that god give them AIDS to wipe them out. Or he's just an opportunist. I truly don't know which is worse.

The argument that he was "liked as a person" is an extremely weak one for defending a person's actions. I understand Jeffrey Dahmer was well liked by his victims, up until the time he started cutting them up for dinner.

 

I didn't really like JF much because of his proclivity of mixing politics and religion, his interpretation of the Bible or his method of evangelizing at times. But really folks the man just died how classless to spew and vilify him now. Some of his biggest enemies said this about him . . .

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2007/05/15/221133.php
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_...ll_is_dead.html

<div align="center">Larry Flynt Statement On Death Of Jerry Falwell</div>

The Reverend Jerry Falwell and I were arch enemies for fifteen years. We became involved in a lawsuit concerning First Amendment rights and Hustler magazine. Without question, this was my most important battle - the l988 Hustler Magazine, Inc., v. Jerry Falwell case,where after millions of dollars and much deliberation, the Supreme Court unanimously ruled in my favor.

My mother always told me that no matter how much you dislike a person, when you meet them face to face you will find characteristics about them that you like. Jerry Falwell was a perfect example of that. I hated everything he stood for, but after meeting him in person, years after the trial, Jerry Falwell and I became good friends. He would visit me in California and we would debate together on college campuses. I always appreciated his sincerity even though I knew what he was selling and he knew what I was selling.

The most important result of our relationship was the landmark decision from the Supreme Court that made parody protected speech, and the fact that much of what we see on television and hear on the radio today is a direct result of my having won that now famous case which Falwell played such an important role in.

- Larry Flynt

"Over the years we became friends; sometimes we had polar opposite points of view. ... I have many fond memories of him. He leaves a great legacy of service and a great university behind. He's left his footprints in the sands of time." — The Rev. Jesse Jackson.

Kinda ironic that it takes a pornographer to teach us all some class, eh?


Wildkow

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 15 2007, 02:31 PM) [snapback]442593[/snapback]</div>

Hilarious, doberman. Good riddance to one less rabid racist. Save your sorrow for the the multitudes of innocents your fascist war mongering murder.

 

Nice post Wildkow. I've been staying away from this one exactly for the reasons and examples stated here.

Also, I still owe you some machines for the folding project, I haven't forgot.
-Robin

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ May 16 2007, 08:09 AM) [snapback]443210[/snapback]</div>

Why is it ironic?

I don't think it's a matter of class or lacking class. I think Daniel (I believe) said it best when he said he was glad that his voice was silenced. I would be just as happy if it was silenced and he was still alive. I think the world is better off without his (and others) kind of polarizing, hate-filled diatribes.

OT, I appreciate the dancing banana being gone.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ May 16 2007, 08:53 AM) [snapback]443223[/snapback]</div>

I will let you be the one who rejoices in hate and death - you seem like the rabid one here.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ May 15 2007, 11:14 PM) [snapback]443117[/snapback]</div>

So it's okay to preach hatred and intolerance against entire classes or groups of people, as long as you don't name individuals???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZenCruiser @ May 16 2007, 06:16 AM) [snapback]443234[/snapback]</div>

Hey, I liked the dancing banana! Even before I got to know Kow a bit better and see his good side, when I was just angry at the political views he expressed, the dancing banana made me smile. Even when he used it to ridicule my ideas, I thought it was an imaginative touch.

 

Now he belongs to the ages. Twenty years from now he'll be just as revered as are William Miller and Aimee Semple McPherson.

 

From a different angle, my most profound memory of the Pastor was during law school ... reading of his libel/slander case against Hustler magazine owner, good ol' boy Larry F. Hustler (using a Campari liquor ad campaign) inferred that Jerry's first sex was with his mother in an outhouse. Hustler lost, and was ordered to pay millions. On appeal (the case went through all the courts), before the Fed Supreams, it was reversed. So as to public figures, it's ok to jokingly tell folks about their sexual encounters w/ their mother.

 

I find it telling that...

the overriding theme here is that Fallwell was a bad man and there is either contentment or glee in his passing... because...

he spoke what he believed to be moral truth. He said that you shouldn't be homosexual because the Bible says that is sin... Pornography is sin... Lieing is sin... Murder is sin....

and...

You all are glad he's dead so that message can be silenced...

while...

You'd all be slobbery sober about the passing of Elton John if we found out today that he died from some disease directly related to his homosexual lifestyle.

Shall we rename it from Freds House of Pancakes to "Sodom and Gomorah Happy Chat"?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ May 16 2007, 11:02 AM) [snapback]443333[/snapback]</div>

Here's another member of the world of absolutes: "either contentment or glee" - two choices only. Life is a multiple choice test, but there are rarely, if ever, any questions that have a choice of only two answers.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZenCruiser @ May 16 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]443354[/snapback]</div>

So, either you can not read, or you have very low comprehension skills... see there, only two choices.. Maybe you can have someone read this thread to you and explain the tone of it.

 

DS,

I couldn't give a rat's nice person if Falwell's hate speech came from his moral compass or anger at his mother.

And therein lies the seminal difference between most people on this forum, and you: you will give him a pass, regardless of how much of a scumbag he is, if he couches his hate in bible talk.

 

Im guessing there will be mourning when Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson die form the members of this board..

Im happy that Falwel was able to go to a better place, I feel for his family and their loss....