evolution vs creation vs Intelligent Design

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Apr 13 2006, 06:10 AM) [snapback]239020[/snapback]</div>

why would you think that? Can you explain? How did you derive at this conclusion?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 13 2006, 01:17 AM) [snapback]238974[/snapback]</div>

So I guess the real question is: what are you going to do about it?

:lol:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hybridTHEvibe @ Apr 13 2006, 06:29 AM) [snapback]239021[/snapback]</div>

i thought you weren't an idiot?

:lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(zapranoth @ Apr 12 2006, 10:08 PM) [snapback]238987[/snapback]</div>

I'm not talking about Jesus. I'm talking about the religious nut cases who use Jesus's name to justify ignorance, bigotry, and violence.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Apr 13 2006, 02:10 AM) [snapback]239020[/snapback]</div>

I never went to church. I was an athiest. (My mom tells me that at the age of 5, I spontaneously announced there is no god. I also announced there is no Santa Claus.) I got called a christ-killer by other kids because my ethnicity is Jewish. (Obviously, not my religion.) Until Vatican II, it was official Catholic Church dogma that every Jew is responsible for the death of Jesus, whether he was alive at the time or not. It's no fun, when you're a little kid, being accused of a murder you had nothing to do with, and being told you're going to hell for it. Kinda makes you angry at idiots who are too stupid to use the brain that evolution (or god, if you believe in god) gave you to think with.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 13 2006, 06:21 AM) [snapback]239073[/snapback]</div>

Everything I can to promote reason as an alternative to religion.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 13 2006, 10:54 AM) [snapback]239081[/snapback]</div>

Here's the irony in all this:

In essence, you're reflecting precisely the same thing, except your "religion" is Athiesm, and you stand with your bible of reason...

...with seemingly equally inverse religious fervor....

:lol:

which is fine, nothing wrong with that, we're all free to worship whom, or what, we choose....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Apr 13 2006, 11:50 AM) [snapback]239122[/snapback]</div>

Actually, I think I do too. The workmate that I mentioned above is Jewish, but non-practicing. Coincidentally, one of my best friends back in PA is also jewish, and has the same name, Elliott, and is also a Toyota salesman! I haven't had a chance to tell him I bought a Prius yet.
Anyway, talking to both of them, I've found the same thing: some Jews have a LOT of pent-up dislike for Catholicism, and tend to let that dislike spill over to ALL Christianity. They have a lot of problem separating the two. What do you do when presented with a different, non-Catholic version of Christianity? Well, you can do one of two things: 1) Put your head in the sand, insist that all Christianity, or even all religion, is hypocritical, divisive, blood-thirsty, and we'd be better off without it, or 2) expend the time to study it honestly for yourself, to see if there's any truth to be found in it. Fortunately, my friend in PA did the latter, and now worships at my church. But, whenever he tries to share anything from the Bible with his mother, she just says "thats a Catholic book", refusing to recognize that all the writers of the Bible were Jewish, most of the writings pre-dated Christianity, and ALL the writings predated Catholicism.
So, how do you identify a "good" or "bad" religion?
John 13:35 - "By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves." Such love reaches across racial, social, and national boundaries, drawing people together in genuine brotherhood. So strong is this love that it sets them apart as being truly different.
2 Timothy 3:16 - "All Scripture is inspired of God". Does the religion respect ALL scripture as being inspired by God, or do they tend to dilute its message, downplay certain parts or writers, or completely dismiss entire passages as being "outdated" or not compatable with current thinking?
Mark 7:7 - "It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines commands of men." Is the religion mostly composed of handed-down traditions, with little or no basis in the Bible? Do those traditions actually contradict or take more prominance than the Truths they should be teaching?
Isaiah 1:15-17 - "And when YOU spread out YOUR palms, I hide my eyes from YOU. Even though YOU make many prayers, I am not listening; with bloodshed YOUR very hands have become filled. 16 Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the badness of YOUR dealings from in front of my eyes; cease to do bad. 17 Learn to do good; search for justice; set right the oppressor; render judgment for the fatherless boy; plead the cause of the widow". Does the religion really motivate people to make changes in their life, to become Christlike, and acceptable to God? Are those who adhere to the religion sincerely endeavoring to apply Bible standards in their life? Or, is their worship a mere formality, more of a social event, with no real affect on their lives?
If it does you any good to know, the bloodguiltiness of false religion has NOT gone unnoticed by God, and her day of judgement will come soon: Revelation 18:3-5 - "For because of the wine of the anger of her fornication all the nations have fallen [victim], and the kings of the earth committed fornication with her, and the traveling merchants of the earth became rich due to the power of her shameless luxury. 4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind."
Revelation says that her destruction will happen very quickly, as if in one day, like a great millstone hurled into the sea. It will come so suddenly that no one will even see it coming.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(keydiver @ Apr 13 2006, 09:45 AM) [snapback]239161[/snapback]</div>

That type of ignorant generalization is the root of anti-Semitism.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Apr 13 2006, 01:02 PM) [snapback]239181[/snapback]</div>

Funny, it seems to be ok though, to generalize all Christians as nutjobs, as is quite apparent within numerous posts... Many of these posts wreak of anti-Chritianism, guess that's more acceptable...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 13 2006, 11:10 AM) [snapback]239228[/snapback]</div>

Zing!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Apr 12 2006, 03:49 PM) [snapback]238755[/snapback]</div>

Faith is a hard thing to grapple with... "its the evidence of things not seen"
We are dealing with Faithless people and trying to explain issues of faith.

Its hard for people to understand faith when they have never had faith pay off.... when thier childhoods were hard and they were abused or mistreated or close to those that are.

We are all like a goldfish sitting on a counter in our little bowl looking out through a distorted glass into a room with objects we have never touched and looking out a patio into the sky and trying to explain it all.

We have limited information and knowledge on purpose. Its not all about what we understand... its about relationship, faith and love.... the understanding only gets in the way of those.

People who cannot understand those three things, also cannot believe in "anything" except thier own understanding........
(Prov 18:2 KJV) A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.

Suffering is so healing can be made manifest, etc etc etc as I already explained......

But people want to "control" everything because they have learned they cannot "trust" anything but themselves. Its a survival mechanism.

Its hard to have an invisible Father you can trust when the earthly one never panned out.

The makeup of Man is such that God fits the holes that are left when man devices are finished.

Why is there a need to worship something?... true man has worship all kinds of inanimate objects... why do you think that is?.. what is the Need to worship anything?......
We were made so.

God is the true and the original, but evil brings in so many fakes and untruths, it makes the originals seem like the fake.

A counterfeit has to make it very close to the original or it will be found out.

Don't confuse the counterfeit with the original.
And just because the counterfeit didn't pay off, dont' assume the original isn't real either.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(zapranoth @ Apr 12 2006, 04:53 PM) [snapback]238788[/snapback]</div>

What is "good?"... a question Jesus asked?

What is good for me, may be "bad" for you?.. so who gets to define whats good?

Justice is based on the foundation of what is good and bad... until we know what that is, its hard to define what is justice verses "injustice".

There have been times when God has had mercy on nations that deserved judgement... but at no time has God given judgement when nations deserved mercy.

Evil follows generations... much of the evil you see around you is a simple byproduct of thousands of years of sin.
Some if from the fathers before you.. sometimes your an innocent bystander and it still gets you.

Jesus walked among thousands and many he did not heal.

He only responded to the ones who reached out in "faith". In fact the last thing he said when he ascended was "will I find faith on earth when I return?"
(Luke 18:6 KJV) And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.

(Luke 18:7 KJV) And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

(Luke 18:8 KJV) I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

(Luke 18:9 KJV) And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

The ones who have grown cold and hardened to protect themselves are the ones that refuse the acknoledge the need for a saviour. It takes "humility" to do that. The ability to say "I am not self sufficent".

God purposely gave us everything we need "except" what he wants to give us. "Relationship"

We desperately need God and we still refuse him as we grasp for air to breath.... how stubborn would mankind be if they were self sufficient and had no need of God?

How hard would it be to train a child if he had no need of the parent?

A parent doesn't alway deliver his child from every tiny thing that could happen to him so that he can learn to stand on his own and be a strength to others some day and be fruitful.
People that are fruitful "give" rather than take.
They are mature trees.

Much of the evil you see befalling people is not because of what that person did or didn't so... If a chemical plant dumps poison smoke in the air, don't we all breath it? Sin is the same way.

But God is a healer and delights in mercy and is not willing that any should die....
But as he weeps he also says:
(Hosea 4:6 KJV) My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

(Hosea 4:7 KJV) As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

(Hosea 4:8 KJV) They eat up the sin of my people, and they set their heart on their iniquity.

People want to be thier own God, but have all the protection and benifits of knowing the real God......


Its against our nature to trust what we cannot see... but in reality we are spiritual beings much more than we are physical beings... those that are spiritually dead cannot see or know that and need to be awakened.

But if you are dead, its absurd to think you can wake yourself, you need someone who has the ability to give life... until you can see that... a dead man can never understand and see into the land of the living.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(zapranoth @ Apr 13 2006, 01:38 PM) [snapback]239374[/snapback]</div>

There is a vast difference between criticizing ideas and opinions and falsely accusing all members of a particular religion as hating another religious group.

Perhaps you should educate on Blood Libel which was quite common this time of year.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Apr 13 2006, 01:02 PM) [snapback]239181[/snapback]</div>

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound anti-Semitic, as I'm certainly not. I was just trying to describe the impression I've gotten from speaking to several Jewish people, and I've never said that I can't blame them. The type of anti-Semitic behavior recorded in the pages of history, or even in the recent news, is appalling.
But, I was just trying to say that I think this hatred/distrust of Christianity, while perhaps well-founded, keeps most Jewish people from even giving the Bible a chance. Not true? :huh:
IsrAmeriPrius, are you saying that neither you, nor anyone in your family holds a grudge for the Inquisitions, or any other Christian-born persecution, because Mel Brooks sure seems too!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(keydiver @ Apr 13 2006, 02:51 PM) [snapback]239421[/snapback]</div>

You did not accuse Jews of holding a grudge for past persecutions. You accused us of having "LOT of pent-up hatred." Big difference.

Most Jews I know have deeply held belief in the Bible, but the original text in the Hebrew language, not your version or interpretation of it.

P.S. Since this thread deals with the topic of evolution, you may wish to take a look at this article:

Darwin is no problem for Jews

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Apr 13 2006, 05:18 PM) [snapback]239395[/snapback]</div>

fantastic. so there's no discrimination between the good people and the bad ones today, because at some point everyone has a "bad" person in their ancestry and that is somehow inherited with the genetic material or something.

do we ask to be born of that? do we have a choice? no. the choice is made for us and then here we are. and why does someone completely innocent then get stuck with burdens of the past? that seems to be the ultimate in unfair.

so what's the whole point of this again? i figured good people would be to some extent favored over the folks who go about exploiting and killing others for a living. apparently not.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 13 2006, 10:54 AM) [snapback]239081[/snapback]</div>

...and how is this any different from every Christian effectively being considered responsible for helping to toss Jews into ovens?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Apr 12 2006, 09:07 PM) [snapback]238837[/snapback]</div>

Bravo, as I couldn't have elaborated with such candid observation and analytic reductionism.

There are many of us that are so tired of religious impugners who do nothing else but perpetuate old tiring screed over and over again. Why can't they comprehend that organized religions did divide mankind into plethora of irrational endeavors? Instilled hatred and division. Instituted ill power and control over millions of people. Subjugated millions into cultural submission and exploitation via religiosity. Where is the exemplary forgiveness and love on the part of organized religions, other than ritualistic manifestations and charitable notions? Always bowing to rich and powerful or influential.

Greed and hypocrisy are culminating virtues in most of societies and organized religions stand comfortably eternizing their own agendas. Gleaning and chiseling from those that are easy to manipulate with.

Funny, that none of those advocating the religions here didn't even try to engage with your post.

So far a piss-poor polemic on their part, many times only embedded with virulence and defamation.

Spongers!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Apr 13 2006, 05:46 PM) [snapback]239416[/snapback]</div>

Right.

Replace the word "Christian" with "Jewish" in this thread, and it will suddenly become highly anti-semitic.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Apr 13 2006, 03:28 PM) [snapback]239431[/snapback]</div>

Everytime I respond to a post, it genders more questions...
Although generational Curses prevail through several generations... even as much a seven and can extend further if someone else down the line perpetuates it "which is almost always the case".

But at any time in the chain the curse can be broken. The whole thing about being a christian is walking in the "power" to rise above sin by dying to self and taking on another spirit and power.

This thread is debating lines along evolution, creation, and intelligent design so expounding too much further would highjack the thread.

But there are tons of religions in this world.... but there is only one "name" that demons submit to and are powerless against.... thats Jesus. Until you see a demon cast out and the power of Jesus name manifest right in front of your eyes, its hard to tell the difference between all the fakes.

Only by one name can cancers die and life be given.

Someone highly given over to the power of evil can do whats called a "lying wonder" and imitate a miracle.
They basically take away something that was in place by the authority of evil they carry.
In other words, if the spirit I am surrender to and operating in is evil and that evil spirit or authority has placed cancer on someone, then I can reverse it by that same spirit and it looks like a miracle?, but its not.

Thats like me giving you a hot cinder in your hand and then taking it away.

But true power is demonstrated when life is given or restored, or evil is dispelled when the author of that evil is dethroned and they go squealing off in dismay and utterly mad and upset.

We have advanced so far in our technology through our left brain evolution, but we are still blind and infants when it comes to the spirit realm.... the eastern countries are more evolved in the spiritual realms, but unfortunately often they dabble with powers that are earthly and far below the powers of above.
The dangers of dabbling with powers of the middle earth and below are that they are not dedicated for your good and guidance, but rather for their good.

Unlike as many mediums try to make you believe, those spirits of middle earth and below are out for themselves not you. They rather use you to get thier bidding.
They have no authority in this earth unless it is stolen from someone who does.

Authority and dominion over the earth was given to man back in the garden, but once sin came into the world, that was stolen.
What true Christianity does is restore that authority and also allows you to dabble with the powers of the world to come... which are far far more powerful than playing around with mediums which will only confuse.
(Heb 6:5 KJV) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

We do not have to be enslaved to sin and its byproducts, but many religions will tell you that we are all sinners and we are saved by grace.... but Jesus said, he that sins is the servant of sin..
(John 8:34 KJV) Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

So what are you saved from if you have not yet escaped the power of sin?
So your not saved "yet" and when you die you will be saved?... what about the "power"?
(2 Tim 3:1 KJV) This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

(2 Tim 3:2 KJV) For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

(2 Tim 3:3 KJV) Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

(2 Tim 3:4 KJV) Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

(2 Tim 3:5 KJV) Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.


(Rom 6:22 KJV) But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

(Rom 6:23 KJV) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Sin is not "imputed" when under grace.. this is the mystery... but not everyone is "under grace" who claims to be.
(Rom 5:12 KJV) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

(Rom 5:13 KJV) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

The way to get out from under the law is to "accept" the name that broke that power.... at that point when that happened is when the power of sin was broken so that the authority given in the garden was restored, "plus some".

I think I have officially highjacked this thread.. so I am stopping as this gets into a full blown Bible Study.

Most of what I am saying on this topic is that, there is alot more to this than what so many think they know....
Have you ever tried to put together a puzzle without all the pieces?