evolution vs creation vs Intelligent Design

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ May 14 2006, 11:10 PM) [snapback]255556[/snapback]</div>

Actually, it was the dog... I'm a little dyslexic. h34r:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mehrenst @ May 16 2006, 09:38 PM) [snapback]256664[/snapback]</div>

Athestic dyslexics untie! There is no doG!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 17 2006, 12:17 AM) [snapback]256656[/snapback]</div>

Hebrews 11:6 say " But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
This is what you are missing in your so called "seeking" God Daniel is the belief that He is truly there. When you start with there is no god you are truly not "seeking" God as you say you are but "testing" God and scriptures warns us about "testing" God.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Randy @ May 16 2006, 10:15 PM) [snapback]256681[/snapback]</div>

This is an example of the mindless circular logic of the fundies: If you want to know whether there is a god or not you must believe beforehand that there is a god.

If you begin with a completely open mind and no prior opinion as to whether there is a god or not (agnostic) then your seeking for truth will be rejected by this supposed god because you have to believe before you will be given any reason to believe.

And if you begin with a belief that there is no god, based on half a century of life experience, but you remain open to new evidence, should any appear, the fundies will drivel on about how you are "testing" god, and not "seeking" him.

Bullfeathers!

I am not "seeking" anything but truth. If there is a god, I am open to him/her/it/whatever. But I am not "seeking' a preconceived answer. In fact, if you have a preconceived answer, you are the one not seeking.

Though I am not a scientist, I follow scientific logic: I accept the conclusion that best fits the evidence, while remaining open to any new evidence that may come along. In the half-century since I have been old enough to apply logic to my experience of the world around me, I have seen mountains of evidence that this world was not "created" in any planned manner, and I have never seen any evidence that it was. And the best you can do is tell me that the reason god hides from me is that I don't reject the evidence of my senses?

I wonder if they give you a lifetime supply of crack when you get "born again"? How else can we explain the drivel that comes out of so many fundamentalist churches?:

God loves you but if you don't believe in him he'll torture you forever.

God wants you to believe in him but you have to believe in him before he'll give you the slightest reason to believe in him.

God created the world six thousand years ago but made it look like it was 4.5 billion years old so that belief would not be hindered by logic.

God wants us to know him through "his word" but he wrote it two thousand years ago in a language nobody speaks anymore and the only way we can read it is in a translation of a translation and it's so full of contradictions no mere human brain can figure out what it's supposed to mean, so we are supposed to have faith in the interpretation a preacher gives to it, and if you happen to believe the wrong preacher's interpretation you get sent to hell for eternity.

The Bible is the word of god because the Bible says it is the word of god.

(Oh, and this is a great one The Bible must be 100% literally true and infallible because it mentions the names of places that really existed.

You know, if I was god I'd send the fundies to hell for slandering me! Fundies paint their god as a capricious, arbitrary, vengeful, sadistic, psychopath.

And you know what makes a fundy more angry than anything? Universalism! The belief that everyone goes to heaven in the end. I have a lot of friends who are universalists. If god is love, then nobody gets punished in the afterlife. But the suggestion that the folks they hate might not go to hell, just makes fundies purple with rage.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 17 2006, 10:19 AM) [snapback]256844[/snapback]</div>

Is this as ridiculous and non logical as you are saying? Suppose that someone does not believe that there is a State of Florida. You try to convince him that there is such a thing as the State of Florida by offering to take him there. He refuses to go by saying that it is a "waste of time" to go because the State of Florida "does not exist". You give him books proving that the State of Florida truly exist. But he replies back to you that this is all "fable and make believe". Another words in order for you to prove to him that the State of Florida truly exist he must first believe that "there is a State of Florida" or at lest be open to the possibility that there is a State of Florida. As long as he is committed to the belief that the State of Florida "does not exist" nothing you can say to him are do can convince him other wise.
And Daniel that is where you are. You are so committed that "God does not exist" that you are not open to the possibility that He does.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Randy @ May 17 2006, 12:10 PM) [snapback]256902[/snapback]</div>

Funny, from reading his last reply it seems he would be more than willing to see the State of Florida.

 

If you could see God, there would be no problem serving him just out of your knowledge of his sheer overwhelming glory, radiance and authority over all things.
This would put on the same level as the angels......
We have a different role, God designed us to serve out of love and faith, not out of what we know with our head... thats why when we arrive at heaven, we will rule and reigh "with" him and actually have authority over the angels because of where we came from and how we got there.

Its easy to be an angel, created in power and perfectness and full knowledge and ability to see the Lord...
Doing what we do is just a bit harder!

I would appreciate your hospitality, but I am an equal with you.... in Gods presence, you would only "sup" with him, once you knew him as a friend and knew his ways and developed a love for him.

As a stranger, the only acceptable approach is humility, reverence and respect for the God most high of all things.

Who are you that you should invite him anywhere and expect him to come?.... we are accepted because He choose to find us, not that we choose to find him.

I understand you are not trying to be disrespectful, but there are many times I have found myself blocked from recieving from God Because I thought my heart was acceptable before God when in reality I had not asked for his acceptance out of his mercy for my pitiful state.

There is a way to approach God and a way not to.

(Isa 64:6 NKJV) But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.

That word "filthy rags" is really "menstral rags" in the hebrew.

The only way to approach God is first to accept his mercy of forgiveness for being unfit for his presence.... when he clothes you with his righteousness... then you are fit.

(1 Pet 5:5 NKJV) Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble."
(1 Pet 5:6 NKJV) Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time,
(1 Pet 5:7 NKJV) casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 17 2006, 07:19 AM) [snapback]256844[/snapback]</div>

Sounds like the ball is in God's court to me.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ May 17 2006, 11:36 AM) [snapback]256922[/snapback]</div>

I believe I'll have another beer.
Pax.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Randy @ May 17 2006, 09:10 AM) [snapback]256902[/snapback]</div>

There is abundant physical evidence that Florida exists. There is abundant circumstancial evidence that god does not. You suggest that someone has offered to take me to god (Florida in your analogy) but in fact nobody has ever made me such an offer. All they've ever done (as you keep doing) is tell me I must believe. Is telling me I must believe your idea of "offering to take me [to god]"??? You say you've shown me books "proving" the existance of god. Poppycock! You've offered one book, full of poetry and contradictions. A fine book, but far from proving the existance of god it paints a picture that makes no sense at all, unless it's interpreted as allegory and fiction.

Let's say you were to tell me that there is a state of East Dakota, situated between North Dakota and Minnesota. I don't believe there is. But if you came to me and said there was, I'd ask you for evidence. I'd look at the evidence you offered, and I'd look at contrary evidence, and I'd make up my mind.

You assert that there's a god. So, where's your evidence? All you can say is "There's a god because the Bible says there is. And the Bible is true because the Bible says it is. And you have to believe before you can believe." You keep accusing me, unjustly, of refusing to consider the evidence and having a closed mind. But neither you nor anyone else has ever offered me any evidence.

I'm open to your evidence. You haven't offered any. Nobody's ever offered me any evidence. Just circular logic and an irrational insistence that I must believe before I'll be worthy of acceptance, and threats that this god of yours (who you insist loves me) will torture me forever if I don't believe in him before I'm shown any evidence.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 17 2006, 09:45 PM) [snapback]257340[/snapback]</div>

Thats whats really funny... I keep telling you to go look in the mirror...... did you make yourself?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 18 2006, 12:45 AM) [snapback]257340[/snapback]</div>

Daniel, I truly want to show you my God. But, there is one thing that will prevent you from seeing my God and that is that you must want to see Him. If you do not want to see God no matter what evidence I show you, you will not believe. The first thing you must do is that you must want to seek God before you can see whether or not He exists. I know that you will never see Him unless you remove your world view "glasses" and put on the christian's world view "glasses". What do I mean by this? It means that you should not "automatically reject" things out of the Bible based on your world view "glasses" such as "miracles" in the Bible. I do not mean that you should accept them "blindly" but ask yourself does this have a ring of truth to it if all things are possible with God and He choices to back up a persons words with miracles?
You write "There is abundant circumstancial evidence that god does not" exist. I agree with your statement for as long as you wear your world view "glasses" that "automatically removes God" from the picture you will "never" see God. If I wear your same "glasses" that filters out "God" I would not see Him either.
If you are truly seeking for answers I would also recommend the DVD called Unlocking the Mystery Of Life.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Randy @ May 19 2006, 03:15 AM) [snapback]257945[/snapback]</div>

The other problem is that God is a spirit...although he can manifest in the physical, that is not his form as physical is not pure.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 18 2006, 12:45 AM) [snapback]257340[/snapback]</div>

I've heard that there is a new state called East Dakota. The people of South Dakota who are disgusted with the right-wing government there have seceded and formed their own state.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 18 2006, 12:45 AM) [snapback]257340[/snapback]</div>

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: only on PriusChat...!

...the "Queer Jesus" t-shirt, now this... It's been a great Friday morning so far!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ May 19 2006, 09:00 AM) [snapback]257980[/snapback]</div>

Might have been the OxyContin.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ May 19 2006, 07:07 AM) [snapback]257962[/snapback]</div>

This doesn't help me very much. What is spiritual? In what sense is the spiritual pure that the physical is not. Can I have a pure lump of gold? It might be contaminated, but I can have a pure atom of gold. Is the scientology purification rundown a scam? Is god the only spirit? If two spirits mix are they impure? Can a spirt get a headache, be jealous, misplace some of its spirituality? Is it then impure?