EV SWITCH

Before I got my Prius I was talking to an owner. He had several mods, but when I mentioned the EV switch he said, "No Way!" He had been to a Prius meeting where a Toyota rep was asked about this mod and he said it voided the battery warranty because it put too much strain on the battery. The rep said they wouldn't be able to have a 150,000 mile warranty in CA if the EV switch was there.

So you shouldn't. Q.E.D. And I admit that, for a while, I considered the "Japan and Europe has it" argument sounding suspiciously like the "they have it why can't I?" argument that we used as kids.

That feeling has changed. Really.

I then started to think about the "the software is already there" argument. I didn't pay attention to it that much, until I realized that the software not only activates the EV system, it also KEEPS IT FROM OPERATING. If the conditions aren't right, the EV system doesn't work. This isn't like somebody posted a thread saying, "Look gang! If you cut these two wires and put in a switch, you can prevent the ICE from starting. You can run off the battery alone if you want to." Now THAT sort of EV switch would probably ruin the battery.

As I said before, my feeling about the EV switch has changed. I have one on the way and will soon be learning how to use it properly.

 

The fact that the HV battery is coddled should give you some measure of confidence. Even when the display shows empty, the State of Charge of that thing is greater than 40%. Often far greater. The car never lets that battery get anywhere NEAR dangerous levels of SOC. IN my Rav4EV, on the other hand, we drain our NiMH batteries until they're dead and won't even roll the car another inch. Not dead according the the software, but actually dead. And they just keep on coming back for more. Many of the cars now have well over 150k miles on them, and even though we abuse the hell out of our batteries, the packs are still doing their thing without complaining.

Plus... you don't have to drain your battery just to use EV mode every now and again. I almost never go long enough for the car to even restart itself. I use it when I want to, and exit the mode when I'm done. No penalty, no foul....

 

Okay, you *assume* that no claim has ever been denied. Perhaps none has been, yet. Has enough time passed for a claim to mature?

The following has been copied from the FAQ published by Toyota for the 2005 Prius:

"25. Does Toyota support the modification of my Prius to be a plug-in Hybrid and run on
electric mode only with a switch?

Any such alterations, modifications or tampering with the vehicle voids the warranty and is
likely to be counterproductive for air quality and Prius’ durability and safety."

Notice it refers to both "durability" and "air quality". It would appear that the company is prepared to deal with this issue.

So let's assume that the company must prove a connection between a mod and a loss, presents what they believe is proof and voids the warranty. What will you do/say? Can you take them on or will you just kiss the warranty goodbye?

I hope you will be lucky and this will never happen.

 

this is a loaded question.... I'll answer with a question...
does Toyota support the modification of "anything". Are you going to buy genuine toyota parts for everything?.. airfilters, oil filters, light bulbs, tires, seat covers etc etc.....

As you toss that around in your mind, the same goes for EV.

They probrably do not want to support the long battery warranties we demand here in the states and support EV at the same time.
It would be interesting to know what kind of battery warranty they get in other parts of the world.

but again.... don't abuse it and your ok... if your window squirter goes out, they can't blame it on your EV switch.... again, they have to prove there was a link.

 

Hi windstrings

I was about to order the switch from Coastal just before reading this thread. Your enthusiasm for it was a big part of my thinking. But then I got to wondering just how much is at stake and just how prepard am I to confront the company if it comes to that. I don't understand what you mean by "loaded" as a description for my question. I thought it was pretty straight forward.

The issue is not about winshield washers or other trivial or unrelated issues. It is about premature failure of the traction battery. This is a big ticket item.

I agree that one can improve their odds by being careful in the use of the mod. But if they get unlucky and the traction battery fails and there has been a mod which the company detects, then the whirlpool spins.

Without legal advice and a crystal ball, I guess we just make a choice and take our chances.

 

Keep in mind that the EV switch is a standard item in Europe and Japan. The Battery ECU tightly controls the SOC of the battery. Coastal Dave has created a way for us unfortunate Yanks and Canucks to interface with the software that's installed in the car. Toyota would have to admit that their own designed is flawed and doesn't do what it's designed to do.

 

Yep, on that note, unless you want to hammer your MPG you need to be judicious with your use of the EV mode. It's not free energy. It came from burning gasoline.

 

A quick seach of the Toyota UK site did not reveal a long warranty like we have which could explain the difference. Can anyone in Japan or Europe confirm?

 

I can confirm that CA has the longest warranty.

I can also confirm that you're more likely to get into a horrible traffic accident than break your battery by using EV mod. I'd worry way more about the traffic accident....

 

My spin on this is that NA Prius owners know about the existance of the EV switch largely from the internet, like PC, Priusonline or the Yahoo groups. In short, not every Prius owner even knows about this and the ones that do are connected to the Prius community.

And we Prius owners LOVE to complain. We complain about the seats, tires, A/C system, the revere beep, color of the interior, color of the exterior, quality of the sound system and the like. And when someone complains, they post. Back in '05 on one of the Yahoo lists, someone created a "wish list" for the 2006-2007 Prius. There were over 50 items.

What does that mean? It means that the EV switch has been in existance since 2004. You'd think by now somebody would post that their battery failed and the tech noticed the EV switch. Just that little bit to make us aware. What muddies the waters is that the techs themselves either don't know, don't care, are interested or installing them.

One nice thing about the EV switch is that it's an option that you can decide whether you want it or not. It doesn't come bundled on a certain option package that you have to buy in order to get it (or are stuck with it).

Pax

 

I want it. How much will it cost? Is it worth that to me?

What if it turns out to cost a lot more than I expecteded, like $3000 instead of $45? I should have known better, eh? A good gambler does not wager more than she/he is prepared to loose. No one is happier than a good gambler who wins. People who don't gamble win less. No question.

Just do it with your eyes open.

 

The term loaded means that you could be looking for an answer that is not applicable to the circumstances you are concerned about.

I was trying to make you see it in a different light.

I'll put it more obvious.... if you install the EV and your planetary gears go out, or your batteries die or catch on fire, or EV quite engaging and disengaging properly... even though its all electrical, they have a burden to prove your switch was the culprit.
They may try to say you have a burden to prove it did not, but the fact of the matter is.. these are all hypothetical situations I have never heard of in the wild.

You would never go to a hospital and get "an upgrade" if you considered all the possible ramifications....

There are no guarantees about anything... but you have an awesome trackrecord by investigating complaints and hearing from veterans who have ran it for years and getting input from others from other countries.

To my knowledge, I have heard no one that is knowledgable dog the idea of installing an EV switch.

Yea, a salesman who only deals in politics,,..... but have you ever heard of a tech or service man guard against it?

If you are uncomfortable in doing what many others have already done... thats a decision no one can condemn or praise.. its simply your decision.

 

Also, remember that without the EV switch the system if "overly" protected against hurting the battery, and true with it engaged you can obviously abuse the battery more...... but even with it, the system will still limit you from total abuse "just not as much as not engaging it".

So if you use it and basically just engage it at times when its silly to run the whole ICE just to putter around a parking lot or sit in traffic or cruise the blvd through numerous redlights, you should be fine.

Its only 45 bucks.... once installed you don't even have to ever engage it if you don't want. Everything works perfectly as if it was never installed.. its your choice to engage it.

Its just another tool "or toy".

YOu could abuse your car too if you wanted.. just because it can go 115 mph you don't do it all the time?
And just because your car can go from 0 to 60 in 10 seconds... you don't do that either all the time?

Anybody can abuse anything... try not to see the decision as so "black and white"...theres alot of grey area.

 

Having driven my new 2006 Prius to and from work this week, I think I need the EV mod to maximize my MPG.

You see, I have a relatively short commute, about 7 miles in 15 minutes. This saves me hundreds of gallons of gas a year compared to a normal tens of miles across the county in freeway traffic Los Angeles style commute, but it is killing my mileage. The first several minutes of this commute, when the car is in the warm up phase, I am on residential streets at about 15-25 mph with several stop signs and one traffic light. And because the ICE is running that whole time, and I'm not getting much movement for it, my first five minute block of time on the consumption screen is coming in at about 25 mpg. I'm getting surprisingly little battery charge during that first five minutes as well.

I figure if I used the EV switch to force the ICE not to run during that early stretch, and instead had the ICE do its warmup later when I am on the main streets or freeway doing 45-70 mph, it will be a much more efficient use of the mandatory ICE running time.

Does the above sound reasonable? Because it would be enough of a benefit that I would jump at installing the EV switch.

 

jef

The thing which troubles me is that the Prius is not simple and unbalancing one things leads to a chain reaction of other things. My studies show that your solution would cause serious delay in warmup of the ICE which is needed for proper fuction of the hybrid system.

One of the reasons why the EV switch was left off the North American cars is that it was harder for Toyota to meet North American enviornmental requirements with the switch since they could not predict how people would use it. I don't understand why they are worried about that but that is what they say. Since they know more about how the Prius works and is designed to function, I suspect they could win an arguement about what affects what in the car.

 

I appreciate that perspective, but I'm not sure how running the ICE for 10 minutes (5 minutes in warm up and 5 minutes in normal driving) instead of 15 minutes (5 minutes in warmup and 10 minutes in normal driving) could be worse for the environment in terms of emissions. This might be one of those circumstances where I know more about what is going to happen than my car's computer system and can beneficially override it. I imagine that is the point of the EV switch in European and Japanese cars in the first place.

I'd love to hear about this from people who have real world experience with the EV switch and may have tried similar things. Driving this first 1.25 miles in EV mode, will I get my battery into the purple bars and make my ICE work even harder? (Are those last bars purple? I've only ever seen green and blue so far). That kind of thing.

 

It's a tradeoff. The ICE charges the battery. If you are in EV mode and the battery level is too low you drop out (so I'm led to believe) and something has to put it back. That should mean the ICE would run longer than normal to get it back.

It's going to depend on the use. I don't have mine yet, but I don't anticipate using it much.

 

Unless that 1.25 is slightly down hill or flat you're going to smoke yer battery trying to go the whole way in EV. Especially if you have to keep stopping and then accelerating. On the otherhand the same will be true of the ICE. You could experiment with how far you can reasonable go without tapping the battery too much. EV is good for that kind of stuff but the battery just doesn't hold that much energy. What I've found is that if I push too hard I end up with the car idling at stop lights (which, at least, recharges the battery). It's all a trade off, but you're right in one respect. The EV switch gives you some control over the situation and since you have a lot more knowlege of the conditions and terrain than the car, you can often make better decisions about how to utilize the different options.

 

Now this is starting to get practical in terms of analysis. I bet I would drain my battery a lot. But I don't think I have to worry about idling at a stop lights to get it back. As soon as I accelerate to 45 mph, I'm headed to the freeway and I don't hit another stoplight for 4 miles. And in that 4 mile stretch there are some nice decelerations and significant downhill portions. I usually get 2.5 to 3.5 little cars in this segment.

 

Okay. Someone above asked for replies from people who've had the EV switch for a long time. That's me. First PC member to install the Coastal version (though others had DIY versions before me.)

#1 Do not do not do not use the EV to delay engine start up significantly. To the poster who has the short commute (15 minutes): allow the engine to start normally, but then use the EV to stop the engine at stop lights, or in slow traffic if it does not stop on its own and the battery SOC is high. In other words, while the car is still cold, in the first 5 or 10 minutes of driving, use the EV switch to make the car behave as it would had it been already warmed up.

#2 To the oft-repeated fear of warranty issues: Note that the question answered on the Toyota web page and quoted earlier in this thread refers to making the prius into a plug-in hybrid, not what the switch does.

#3 To fears about damaging the car. How the bleeping bleep are you going to damage the car by implementing a function that is built into the car, is available everywhere except N.A., and is so full of redundant protection that it's safer than a 747???

#4 Some dealers are so unimaginably ignorant about this car that they are Toyota's worst enemy.

#5 Most dealers are going to advise you against anything for fear of lawsuits in this idiotically litigation-crazed country. No dealer will ever be sued for telling a customer not to modify his car. But some day some idiot is going to botch a mod install and sue the dealer who told him it was okay to do it. So yes, the dealer will tell you not to. But the only real risk you face is that you might botch the install (though in the case of the Costal Tech version, it's pretty simple, but, yes, it's not entirely fool-proof and you could mess it up.)

#6 The EV switch is not necessary. It's fun, and I believe it improves mileage by a very small amount IF used judiciously and conservatively. It's also really cool to impress pedestrians in parking lots. But drive very carefully, because they won't hear you coming, and you will almost certainly be sued if you run one down! So put one in IF you want the additional toy AND you are confident you can manage it. But if you are going to lose sleep worrying about the warranty, then the EV switch is not worth it because the real difference is slight.