EV company sinking?

I remember for almost a decade everyone laughed at Amazon for not being profitable selling books... And VC investors have no problem only seeing 3% of the start ups they paid for turn a profit, because that 3% produces long term profits way bigger than all their investments combined.

And with the size of investment it takes to build factories to build cars, I'm not seeing why this is a problem in the short term?

 

i agree they generally go hand in hand. many claim tela is not nearly as luxurious as certain german brands, or british.
so that would mean the bz4x is overpriced because you don't get the luxury?

 

Wasn't quite the point I was looking to make, but I don't disagree with your statement.

As Zythryn pointed out upthread, the bz4x is the product of an established manufacturer and not one of the little new ones, so it's kind of irrelevant.

 

Problem in what way? For who?
I don’t quite understand what your statement is about.

 

The Leaf was doing a non-luxury car first. It was one of the first, and had the econo car price ruined by what batteries cost back then. Then Nissan's choices to keep what costs they could low ended up leaving many with a poor BEV experience. An established car company can do an affordable BEV today, but most don't have BEV experience yet. More luxury models not only mean higher margins, but also smaller production to perfect manufacture and get supply lines in order.

 

The Lucid CEO:

Before Lucid, Peter was Vice President of Vehicle Engineering at Tesla and Chief Engineer of the Model S, where he led the engineering of Tesla's flagship vehicle from a clean sheet to production readiness while building the engineering team.​

So he left with his Tesla experience and tried to do it again:

Rawlinson received a $379 million compensation package in 2022 for his role at the luxury EV maker Lucid, including a $575,000 base salary, $5.5 million of stock options, and an incredible $373 million in stock awards, according to a new CEO compensation survey from Automotive News and Equilar.​

Yeap, he got out of Tesla just in time:


Bob Wilson

 

The Leaf was also born in 2010.
Average new car prices were $25,000 then.
They're closer to $50k now - which is why so many Americans are poor planners for retirement since WE are still buying new cars.
And I DO mean 'we.'
We bought one in 2020 and another one in 2023 for $24k and $36k respectively
https://www.financialsamurai.com/average-new-car-price

 

We are getting into living within your means and not keeping up with the Jones discussions:

There are many car lots filled with excellent choices for individuals with new vehicles under $25,000 with 10 year powertrain warranty's as well - an individual just needs to make the right choice- because others are buying loaded vehicles is not an excuse for someone else to do that:

This is just the first plage of 20, the highest priced vehicle on this page is $26,000 most are $22,000
some of the pages have the highest price vehicles on the page at $23,000.

What does one want in life- $40,000, $50,000 and $60,000 or more type vehicles are plentiful with 8 year financing if that blows your dress up - but - if it doesn't-there are a wealth of reasonably price efficient vehicles that will make your day- Corolla, Prius, Camry all come to mind.

Also great buys on pre owned vehicles are plentiful right now.
This reminds me of discussing if a glass is half full or half empty of water.

The average price of a new vehicle has most certainly gone up over time - mainly due to peoples tolerance for debt and buying above their means - not because the lack of affordable vehicles.

American Debt: Auto Loan Balances Hit $1.62 Trillion in Q1 2024

 

Whatever any of the other members are thinking about the eco nomy of scale don't forget about the defense race, space race, quantum race, and how manufacture plays into them and or doesn't touch them.
It ain't gonna get any easier in the future for anybody no matter what they tell us or want us to believe..

 

So you ain't married.

Bob Wilson

 

Oh?

I do not know of ANYBODY who would for-real take a magic carpet ride BACK 50 years.....or 100.
It's the R/D (science!) in those races that MAKE things 'easier' for people.

Whether or not they have the wisdom to appreciate this is another topic for another forum.

Lucid sinking?
Probably.
Bad economies like the one we're in (departing, entering?) are like storms.
They break stuff.
It's happening to other companies besides Lucid BOTH new and old.
(Looking at YOU, Boeing!)
That does NOT mean EVs are impossible to succeed with, at scale, since obviously EV is the bait for EVangelicals to click.

There's a difference between MSRP (which does not include shipping and other costs....) and real-world prices - so while your points are valid, you need to move your pointer closer to $35k.

 

when was the last time we had a good economy?

 

Except the used ones from Hertz below 25000 get 4000 if qualify, and those are Solterras. Quite a deal. There were quite a few. I liked them a lot. Made by Toyota.

 

Before COVID in 2020.

When the corporate tax rate was cut almost in half, tax revenues increased due to the better economy.

 

Or they increased from all the tariffs imposed willy nilly.

 

I only have my life to live, not an economy:

• House paid off and $1,000 property tax paid
  • Battery powered lawn equipment
  • Hybrid water tank and clothes dryer
  • Zone air conditioning and windows that open and close
• Two paid off cars:
  • 2019 Tesla Model 3 with FSD - tag taxes $450
  • 2017 BMW i3-REx - tag taxes $450
• Unemployable 74 years old:
  • ~$2,800/mo - Social Security
  • ~$1,000/mo - Pension
  • Medicare A & B
    • Generic meds
• Profit taking TSLA stock, ~10x growth
  • Buying whole house solar to reduce monthly electric bill
• Food - Type 2 diabetes
  • Cheese and milk
  • Critter protein
  • Carrots, squash, onions, plain beans, lemons, non-sugar coated nuts
  • No sugar, carbs, or sweet fruits,

Can you buy stock an economy like the stock market?


Everyone has to manage their 'private' economy and so far, I don't have a problem.

Bob Wilson

ps. The dog park is next to a rail road line and the trains often go by. When Biden came into office, there were frequently, empty train cars going by with a lot of coal. Recently, no empty cars, 90% double stacked, and less than half the number of coal cars.

 

It's been a minute.
If you're in the bottom quintile it's for DANG sire not NOW!!!!

As I've said probably too many times on this site:
Nostalgia = History + 3 cocktails.

Many people in my orbit are plagued by remaining high prices for things that they HAVE to buy.
Place that 'blame' where you will but for 'me and mine' some eco-chic BEV company that has the same approximate name recognition as the junior Senator from New Hampshire isn't going to be the 'top turd' on their pile.

 

“U.S. Tax Revenue by Year
Here's a record of income for each fiscal yearsince 1962. Tax receipts fell off during the 2007–2009 recession but started setting new records by fiscal year 2013. They fell off again during the brief 2020 recession and then resumed their upward climb until the fiscal year 2023, when lower income tax collections driven by Trump's tax cutspushed overall revenue lower.3


FISCAL YEAR REVENUE
FY 2023 $4.44 trillion
FY 2022 $4.90 trillion
FY 2021 $4.05 trillion
FY 2020 $3.42 trillion
FY 2019 $3.46 trillion
FY 2018 $3.33 trillion
FY 2017 $3.32 trillion
FY 2016 $3.27 trillion
FY 2015 $3.25 trillion
FY 2014 $3.02 trillion
FY 2013 $2.78 trillion
FY 2012 $2.45 trillion
FY 2011 $2.30 trillion
FY 2010 $2.16 trillion
FY 2009 $2.11 trillion”

 

now compare that to spending

 

2015 - $4.89 trillion
2016 - $5.03 trillion
2017 - $5.09 trillion
2018 - $5.13 trillion
2019 - $5.46 trillion
2020 - $7.94 trillion
2021 - $7.84 trillion
2022 - $6.66 trillion
2023 - $6.31 trillion
2024 - $6.75 trillion