ethanol in hess gas

We know what you mean, but "originally" is not the proper descriptor. It's older than gas itself.

Ethanol was the first fuel for combustion engines over a century ago, since it was readily available via home distilling.
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I just realized why there are so many stories of damaged fuel tanks with E10, particularly in the marine environment.

"Ordinary" gasoline is petroleum based, which means the contents are not "hydro-phyllic" (don't mix with water). Therefore gasoline doesn't contain a lot of ions and doesn't conduct electricity. Corrosion (ionic corrosion in particular) in a clean fuel system is minimal.

Now add ethyl alcohol, which will mix with the petroleum and will mix with water. You have ions! Especially in a marine environment, you will have ionic corrosion.
If the fuel systems are designed with no ions in mind they will corrode rapidly. Even "plastic" fuel tanks will have problems, because all the fittings are metal, the level sender is metal, the fuel pump is metal. I suspect it's time the marine industry started using the "active" corrosion inhibitors (electronic), as well as proper anti-corrosion design.

 

David:

You've summarized the marine-environment problem very nicely.

The problem seems to be more with older two-cycle, carburated outboard engines than with the fuel tanks. But in all marine environments, the recommendation is to change fuel filters often (until you get all the emulsified--hope I'm using the correct term--water out), and then to keep fuel tanks filled, to avoid condensation.

Anyway, this is obviously not a problem with a Prius. In fact, I wonder if marine fuel tanks should be designed with bladders.

Sorry for sending this thread a bit off track, but the responses have been illuminating.

--Joe

 

Less pollution "coming out of the tailpipe" is the key phrase. More pollution though, when you factor in the "reality". Power/pollution to deliver the water to the corn (or other source) field. Power/pollution to manufacture / deliver / distribute the chemicle fertilizer, power/pollution to cultivate, harvest, process, ferment the corn (or other source).
Now you REALLY are talking a net looser, plus, worse mpg. You gota love the power of the lobby.

 

Many of the fuel tanks in boats are made of polyester fiberglass, which slowly dissolves in alcohol. The gooey plastic mixture works its way through the fuel system, clogging filters and engine parts. In extreme cases engines have been ruined. High density polyethylene tanks are good. So are stainless steel, although then the ionic problem you describe starts to rear its ugly head.

Tom

 

I have noticed roughly 3 to 5 mpg drop since using 10% ethanol gas. That is significant considering it is 5 to 10 percent cut in the mileage I was getting.

But there is a much bigger concern I would like address.

My yard man was telling me that he knows a toyota mechanic who tells him that he is now seeing a lot of Prius showing up with fuel problems. The ethanol is supposedly gumming up the fuel injectors and other gas associated components and is not covered by dealer warranties.

It is supposedly even causing problems in lawn equipment as attested to by my yard man who has two relatively new John Deere mowing machines of which one is now becoming difficult to start.

You can't buy gas without ethanol (at least here in Florida), so what are we to do?

Is anyone else having maintenace issues associated with this fuel addative?

 

Ethanol is a cleanser, not a contaminant.

Built up prior to the use of ethanol is almost certainly the cause. What else could it be? With so many Prius here in Minnesota using nothing but E10 their entire life (mine is at 101,200 miles now), we would have high numbers of reported problems. Instead, nothing. They continue to run just fine.

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Lend an ear for another angle on Ethanol.

Corn Ethanol Worsens Gulf of Mexico 'Dead Zone'

 

Haven't been to a gas station that doesn't have at least E10, in NY, NJ, PA, CT, MA. Would say that it's become common place on the East Coast.
The whole make gas from corn thing is a farce, takes more energy to make the gas then it's worth. What is the long term forcast for the damage it will do, who knows, but it's there!

 

I get 44 mpg with 10% ethanol and 49 mpg without. How is that good?

 

I am curoius why you are using Techron and MTBE in the same sentence like you are. I hope you are not suggesting that Techron and MTBE are the same thing or have the same purpose. They are/do not. This from Chevron's site:

"MTBE, or Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether, is an ether compound used as a gasoline blending component since 1979. MTBE is made by combining isobutylene and methanol. Originally, it was used to help raise the octane of gasoline. It is also used to raise the oxygen content of gasoline to meet government mandates. However, because of environmental concerns, in the United States, MTBE has been widely replaced by ethanol as an oxygenate.

Oxygenated gasoline is a mixture of conventional gasoline and one or more combustible liquids which contain oxygen. At present, ethanol is the most common oxygenate in the United States. The government requires gasoline to be oxygenated during the winter in areas that have a carbon monoxide pollution problem (cold weather and atmospheric inversions worsen carbon monoxide pollution). Oxygenated gasoline helps engines run leaner, which helps some engines – particularly older engines – produce less carbon monoxide.

Techron is a fuel additive which acts as a detergent to keep your engine clean and deposit free. Techron uses polyether amines (PEA) to help fight deposits in an engine’s intake system and minimize combustion chamber deposits. Over 25 years ago, after discovering that PEAs were effective deposit control additives, Chevron patented them and has been reformulating and improving Techron ever since."