Ethanol fuel appropriate for Prius?

Some locations (like here in Phoenix) have E10 exclusively. The object is to reduce CO emissions.

 

For some time now there have been acetic acid scavengers utilized to control the corrosivity of ethanol. It is not a problem with the rapid cycling through fueling station tanks and auto fuel tanks. The eating through to which you refer would happen in flexfuel vehicles as well if it weren't for that preventive action. I agree completely with Mr. Beale's postings--stimulation of alternative fuel technologies as well as EVs, fuel cells and every other energy diversification technology is something that Prius adopters should readily understand. Mr. Schumacher, it's already been 21 months and there is zero sign of damage. No leakage, no catastrophe as was predicted when I posted this previously. I believe the proof is in the doing! If E85 were as risky as you and others seem to believe then there would likely be liability postings at the E85 fueling stations. I did admit there ARE reductions in MPG figures and I did get some intermittent check engine lights, but I have no leaks, the car starts, sounds and runs fine and my CO emissions are less than yours--data for E85 and E10 use shows that. I'm glad that I can add something to the 'acquired knowledge' level of Priuschat. We all have choices--I've made mine and I'm delighted with the results. I will continue to share the state of my vehicle's 'health' on an annual basis, to add to the knowledge base on this subject.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(richard schumacher @ Oct 17 2007, 11:20 AM) [snapback]526861[/snapback]</div>

 

When you sell the car will you tell the buyer that you used E85 in it?

 

No, probably not. If asked, I certainly answer any questions honestly. I keep a car for ten or more years. It's pretty much over it's useful, high-value life by then--most cars are. I donate my cars...I don't sell them. I've never felt the need or obligation to reveal how I've cared for my car or how I've modified my car unless asked. Recipient organizations never ask questions...in fact they more often than not tow perfectly driveable cars. I'm sure you wouldn't reveal that you've added one of those metal plates or tinkered with the speed sensor wires to enable different electronic functionality. In an older USED car, those things just don't matter as much as the overall driveability of the vehicle. I see no difference here. A buyer purchases a used car at their own risk. Many things users do affect the longevity of the car. Mechanical/electrical failures can happen as well. I think that if there's any adverse effect of using ethanol blended fuel, I'll know it by 100,000 miles. At 18,000+ miles there has been no discernible effect. The sky has not fallen in. I appreciate your concern though.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(richard schumacher @ Oct 18 2007, 12:34 AM) [snapback]527206[/snapback]</div>

 

Macomb, you're a brave person.
In Australia ethanol used in automotive fuels is made from sugar production byproducts like molases and uses much less energy in production than corn ethanol so I'm lead to believe.

 

Macomb, I am also experimenting with E85 but in a classic Prius. I have read the university study...

www.greenenergynetwork.com/media/studies/prius-e85.PDF

...in which an '03 was switched to pure E85, but I was still scared to switch my '01 cold turkey. I read the postings from drivers of other types of vehicles who have blended E10 and E85 by splash mixing, then about a month ago began introducing a little E85 with each tankful.

I tend not to pay too much attention to the ethanol wars, in which I've read flames from both sides about environment destruction, MPG, cost, and whether ethanol contributes to increasing food prices. My interest is purely to support native USA solutions rather than imported oil as much as possible, and I do believe as we continue to increase our alcohol production, that the efficiency issues will get solved.

I live in Houston but yesterday had to travel to Dallas. My family of 4 drove there and back in the Prius (it's at 124,000 miles now) with no problems. I'm up to about E30 now by my calculations and will continue increasing gradually my alcohol content until I'm at least E50 or the engine light starts to come on, whichever comes first. Based on the university study I believe I could probably run pure E85 in the thing without ill effects except for the light.

I don't like to drive with engine lights on, and here in Houston, inspection stickers don't get renewed if the light is on.

Rock on
.....MontyMan.

 

Certainly, until the E85 eats through some hose or seal somewhere. Please let us know when the car stops running, what broke, and how much it cost to repair.

 

Absolutely correct, though the Prius is made with alcohol resistant parts, that resistance is only guaranteed to work up to 10% and I plan to run maybe 40% or 50% alcohol, so I do run the risk of some parts failures there. The university study expressly disclaims any findings of long term effects.

Of course, with an older car like this one and 124k miles, my risk is not as great as Macomb's.

 

Three months later, now at 130k miles, with some additional test results. I have managed to splash-mix different mixtures of alcohol and gasoline all this time, with some interesting results.

All fuel percentages are estimated, because "regular unleaded gasoline" here in Texas can be anywhere from 90% to 100% gasoline (87 octane), with the remainder being ethanol alcohol, and "E85" can range from 71% to 85% alcohol, with the remainder being gasoline.

I estimate the mixture of the above two products tracks roughly the mixture of alcohol and gasoline in the resulting fuel. Here's what I have found:

My fuel mileage (shown on consumption screen and verified with a calculator) remains in the area of 45 mpg, from pumping pure gasoline up to pumping 60% gasoline. I estimate this mixture coincides with 40% alcohol and 60% gasoline chemically also. In other words, whether I fill my entire 12 gallon tank with 87 octane gasoline or splash-mix 4 gallons of E85 and fill the rest with 87 octane gasoline, the fuel mileage seems to remain constant within my ability to measure it.

When I exceed 50% alcohol (eg. pumped 5 gallons E85 and 3.5 gallons E10 with the rest of the tank containing an estimated E40 mixture) the fuel mileage dropped noticeably from 45 mpg to 37 mpg under the same driving conditions as usual.

Within both of these ranges, I also do not notice any difference in power, performance, or any other noticeable factor, and I still have not seen an engine light.

I have adjusted my splash-mixing to the following procedures, due to the above results:

Refill at 2 bars: Fill 3.5 gallons E85 followed by the rest of the fillup (approx 5 gallons) E10 gasoline.

Refill at 1 bar: Fill 4 gallons E85 followed by the rest of the fillup (approx 5.5 gallons) E10 gasoline.

I know many of you believe the alcohol resistance of my fuel system components will fail, and it still may happen but so far so good.

Anyone else have any results?