1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Environmental News

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Oct 22, 2015.

Page 53 of 122
  1. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    3,028
    2,369
    0
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Isn't that something Spock once said?

    Mike
     
    #1041 3PriusMike, Jun 11, 2019
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,165
    50,061
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    dr. spock?
     
    #1042 bisco, Jun 11, 2019
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,159
    3,565
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    A link that works for me and not for thee? Fascinating.

    Straight to renewables sounds ideal to me. If none in positions of power oppose it, and external investment can be attracted.

    Zambia BTW has hydroelectric up the wazoo. So to speak.
     
    #1043 tochatihu, Jun 11, 2019
  4. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    3,028
    2,369
    0
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Lieutenant, depending on the episode/movie, I think
     
    #1044 3PriusMike, Jun 11, 2019
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,159
    3,565
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Spocko

    spocko-and-bonesjpg.jpeg
     
    #1045 tochatihu, Jun 11, 2019
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,452
    11,766
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Wakanda

    The link took some time to load for me.
     
    #1046 Trollbait, Jun 12, 2019
  7. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    20,183
    8,356
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    that's the beauty of reducing the releasing of carbon dioxide. Even if the man-made thing is phony baloney, decreasing our C02 output - we still end up saving natural resources, as well as increasing efficiency, as well as (hopefully) the possibility of someday getting out of other countries (where we harvest THEIR carbon based fuels) where culturally 'isolationistic' people don't want us anyway. Point being, it serves no purpose to become hysterical over either weather or climate if we are doing the right thing. That's the trick.
    .
     
    #1047 hill, Jun 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,165
    50,061
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    well, i thought it might be good thing, but doc seems to disagree
     
    #1048 bisco, Jun 12, 2019
  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,159
    3,565
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    This may clarify matters. Or not.

    I agree with all Hill said except "crazy people" is not a useful description. Hysterical and doing the right thing syllogism is unknowable at present. So it does not seem useful either.

    We don't know how rapidly climate will change on current CO2 emission pathway, or rate/extent of those changes on other aspects of human enterprise, or extent to which they would be mitigated on a lower-CO2 pathway. I mean we do not know exactly.

    Because of all that it makes sense to transition to renewable E at a rapid rate. If too rapid constrains economic development in poor countries, you have non-optimized in a different direction. Best guesses require inputs from a wide range of experts.

    I concede that fossil fuel burners are a type of expert. Particularly in terms of making profits in settings where externalities are ignored. They will not willingly give up their seat at the table. Optimal path for de emphasizing that large, profitable, and government-subsidy-driven industry will not be easy to know or implement.
     
    #1049 tochatihu, Jun 12, 2019
  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,159
    3,565
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    #1050 tochatihu, Jun 12, 2019
  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,159
    3,565
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    #1051 tochatihu, Jun 12, 2019
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,165
    50,061
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    my wife was looking over my shoulder and said, 'wow, that guys a nerd'. :p
     
    #1052 bisco, Jun 12, 2019
  13. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,159
    3,565
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    My best wishes to you both.
     
    #1053 tochatihu, Jun 12, 2019
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,165
    50,061
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    thank you, and to you. i'll pass it along :)
     
    #1054 bisco, Jun 12, 2019
  15. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,159
    3,565
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    #1055 tochatihu, Jun 27, 2019
  16. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,159
    3,565
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    West Antarctic ice sheet, were it to depart, would increase global sea level by 3 meters. A newly proposed way to prevent or delay that is with snow blowers on a very large scale:

    Sea level rise: West Antarctic ice collapse may be prevented by snowing ocean water onto it -- ScienceDaily

    From the original publication

    "Snowing the water mass onto the ice sheet would mimic the type of precipitation naturally occurring over most part of the ice sheet, ..."

    Which I would dispute. Sea water has 35 grams per liter of NaCl, which natural snow does not. Publication does not indicate that authors considered that salt effects on ice and snow melting. (an email is obviously called for)

    ==
    +CO2 effects on nutrition of agriculture:

    Rising CO2, climate change projected to reduce availability of nutrients worldwide: Protein, iron, zinc to be 19.5%, 14.4%, and 14.6% lower, respectively, than without climate change -- ScienceDaily

    Not first time this has been suggested. Separate from obvious concerns for human nutrition, I wonder how nutritious plants were 170 million years ago when CO2 was very high. Perhaps unlikely that such information can be extracted from fossil records. But that's what was thought about colors of dinosaur feathers until someone figured out how to detect it.
     
    #1056 tochatihu, Jul 18, 2019
  17. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,557
    10,324
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    More questions, besides the obvious potential pitfalls of pumping ice-melter on top of glaciers:

    Freshwater snowmaking requires a lot of energy to pump the water up to the ski slopes, and to blow it into the air in a form that actually makes something resembling snow instead of (sunlight absorbing) ice or water runoff. What elevations will this water need to be pumped up to? Is the energy available for fake snow on West Antarctica? Carbon-free or at least sufficiently low carbon to be climatically beneficial?

    What would the actual albedo of this seawater 'snow' be, compared to natural snowfall? Could it would a bit dirtier and darker, possibly increasing solar melting?
     
    #1057 fuzzy1, Jul 19, 2019
  18. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,159
    3,565
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Geo engineers here mention large wind turbines to provide E>100 gigawatts. Also see distances of >100 km and a notable phrase "ignoring frictional losses".

    Look, nobody is claiming practicality. They are simply observing that +3 meters sea level would be disruptive, and expanding list of geoengineering options to possibly consider. I'd not fault that, but prefer it to be fully scoped.

    I honestly doubt that anyone anywhere has made a teaspoon of seawater snow, so its albedo is ???
     
    #1058 tochatihu, Jul 19, 2019
  19. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,159
    3,565
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    #1059 tochatihu, Jul 26, 2019
  20. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,557
    10,324
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I missed the news, but a quick check of my usual past source does show two potentially serious pebbles passed closer than the moon in the past two days:

    upload_2019-7-26_16-1-44.png

    Both were discovered less than 4 weeks before encounter. Many others are not discovered until they are receding.
     
    #1060 fuzzy1, Jul 26, 2019
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 53 of 122