Environmental News

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Oct 22, 2015.

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  1. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Navajo power plant withers:

    Biggest coal-burning power plant in the West is most likely shutting down

    This has been anticipated for some time. Among interesting consequences, note that several national parks and monuments in western US have made long-term and frequent visibility studies. 'Navajo' is seen as important in those. When it ceases emissions, within a week or two we would expect to see the response. Air 'cleans itself' or moves away rapidly. Regional breadth of response will be seen across those parks and monuments. This will be a rather easy scientific study to write and by one year after closing I expect to see it.

    If not, another sternly worded email...
     
    #321 tochatihu, Apr 11, 2018
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  2. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Beyond thanking thankers, I hope to hear thoughts about

    How this coupla gigawatt hole will be filled
    How affected Injuns will get replacement electricity
    How coal extraction around there might be affected
    How employment around there might be affected

    While nice and all, just getting an air-quality publication out of this is a narrow view of the matter. Arguably a bit elitist :oops:
     
    #322 tochatihu, Apr 11, 2018
  3. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Wind output at that location is not great:
    [​IMG]
    And like solar, which is great there, is intermittent. But Solar concentrating may not be a bad idea as it can utilize thermal storage to better match supply with demand in the evening and one could then fill in the gaps with gas until other renewable/storage technologies can edge out gas. Sounds like jobs to me.

    [​IMG]
     
    #323 iplug, Apr 12, 2018
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  4. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    OK, renewable-E sources are available, but what is the near-term plan and who is throwing money thataway to make it happen? This big burner will shut down soonish.
     
    #324 tochatihu, Apr 12, 2018
  5. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    So apparently solar to replace the power output is doable and could be brought on line in time (as of an article almost a year ago), but seems unlikely there will be enough sustainable equivalent employment:

    Solar power advocates say a 250-megawatt renewable-energy facility could be in place in time for the late-2019 closure of the Navajo Generating Station, if permitting and construction began right away.

    ... solar doesn’t employ nearly as many in the long run as a coal-fired plant, but said clean energy is still a worthy goal.​

    Solar could replace Navajo Generating Station power, but not its jobs | Tucson Business News | tucson.com

    Incentives might be needed. Can't seem to find if the plant suddenly went dark if the rest of the grid as it currently exists could cover for it.
     
    #325 iplug, Apr 12, 2018
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  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    'Navajo' is just not making money, which weakly implies substitutes are already in the grid.

    Local employment deficit seems an issue. One might wonder if some wealthy do-gooder is looking for a 'cause'; a place to spend $millions towards employment. Navajo and Hopi are mostly not affluent (without regard to other 1.0 Americans). They cannot just build a casino because Las Vegas is a better magnet. One can only sell so many Kachinas (and so much fry bread) to tourists :)

    A billionaire could do worse than to invest towards making this part of America 1.0 great again. Is that too political?
     
    #326 tochatihu, Apr 12, 2018
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  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I think Oklahoma is instructive as to what happens when an economy is based on mineral or oil extraction. The few, very wealthy owners buy their local government and drive taxes to such low numbers that public education all but ends. In contrast economies based on making stuff value education because being clever pays and fuels their economy.

    The native peoples will ranch and farm much as they did before. To transition to a manufacturing economy will be a heavy lift.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #327 bwilson4web, Apr 12, 2018
  8. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    We might disagree, but I think that OK economy got a good boost from enhanced petro extraction. Whether they choose to 'Pruitt' that money, or direct it towards education or other forward-looking directions, is not my call. In any case they will always have elections and Electoral College impact.
     
    #328 tochatihu, Apr 12, 2018
  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I do not think that any posters here could prescribe what Navajo and Hopi etc. might do, economically, were they not stuck in 19th century.

    Look anywhere for images of Monument Valley. Consider if tourism there has been monetized well. Wonder if it could be done better, in the style of further-away other countries. Realize that Grand Canyon is already a global magnet, only needing better to be linked to.

    In no way do I suggest that Navajo and Hopi need to become innovative manufacturing areas. Their strength lies elsewhere.
     
    #329 tochatihu, Apr 12, 2018
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  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Growing up in Oklahoma, our native people have a well earned, suspicion of the immigrants, my relatives, three generations earlier. My grandmother was a child during the Oklahoma land rush. When I drive through the reservation areas, I'm seeing small scale ranchers and farmers. Of course Oklahoma has had a brain drain, actually the midwest, for decades.
    For a couple of years, 5th and 6th grades, I grew up in Atoka Oklahoma and well remember the tourist traps. Instead of mining minerals, the worn out oil fields and shallow coal seams, they tried to mine the pockets of any stranger. The natural beauty of the area surrounded by 'trinket tourism.' The culture supported a home-made library with religious books and limited hours.
    I don't know their strengths beyond artwork. Certainly their art work is stunning when it does not carry a 'Made in China' label. But how many artists can a people produce, commercialized, and defend their copyright?

    There are indications many native Americans suffer social ills suggesting problems finding a role for excellence in the larger society. I suspect our Australian friends see similar symptoms with their aboriginal peoples. Yet put them in a wide brim hat, buckle belt, and pointy toe boots and they are otherwise indistinguishable from their pale skin cowboy neighbors.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #330 bwilson4web, Apr 12, 2018
  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    #331 tochatihu, Apr 17, 2018
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  12. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    My brother-in-law works for one of the national laboratories and very recently presented some of his project work to him.

    It was refreshing to hear (perhaps unlike a certain EPA appointee) that Perry was actually very interested and engaged, asking intelligent and pointed questions, and promised funding and support for a broad range of projects, as it has been with DOE predecessors.

    I asked the brother-in-law if there was any sense that Perry was interested in steering funding towards a narrow political agenda and was glad to hear the answer seems to be no.

    The budget actually grew for the DOE:

    Science at Department of Energy gets a hefty raise in final 2018 budget | Science | AAAS
     
    #332 iplug, Apr 17, 2018
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  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I am a fan of Argonne National Lab and in particular their testing of vehicles. But there has been nothing after 2016 model year vehicles. Unfortunately there is user data (i.e., Fuelly) suggesting some of the 2017 plug-in hybrids may have inaccurate mileage specs.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #333 bwilson4web, Apr 18, 2018
  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    An excusable tendency to focus on apparently most efficient vehicles. Broader perspective would be on >500 million personal-transport vehicles and how this fleet can become cleaner and more efficient during (let's say) 2 to 3 decades.

    Technology trickles down, mostly. Profit margins certainly do. But future global personal-transport fleet may not broadly resemble Toyota's or others' ornamented steel shells.
     
    #334 tochatihu, Apr 18, 2018
  15. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Exploding ants. You know them, you love them, so here's another:
    New ant species from Borneo explodes to defend its colony -- ScienceDaily

    Some plants hide out for decades:
    'Rip Van Winkle' plants hide underground for up to 20 years -- ScienceDaily

    ==
    Following have only flimsy connections to 'environmental' and yet I persist. Hot science is hot. Just try to stop me :)

    Adaptive optics, besides making stars not twinkle, can see inside critters:
    New microscope captures detailed 3-D movies of cells deep within living systems -- ScienceDaily

    Your blood vessels are old. Your mitochondria can be improved:
    Novel antioxidant makes old blood vessels seem young again -- ScienceDaily

    To this I'd only add that, like almost all cells in your body, blood vessels are actually very young. It's an epigenetics problem with epigenetics solution.
     
    #335 tochatihu, Apr 21, 2018
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Bombardier beetles are still cooler than ants that rip themselves apart.
    Aren't there some termites that have glue shooting defenders.
     
    #336 Trollbait, Apr 22, 2018
  17. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Bombardier beetles -> only ones I have held in hand for their cablooey.

    Glue-shooting termites -> Oh yes. Wish we knew why these tree-nesting ones have such particular distributions.

    I wish we knew many things...
     
    #337 tochatihu, Apr 22, 2018
  18. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    #338 tochatihu, Apr 25, 2018
  19. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Double vend. Too bad it's not a candy bar.
     
    #339 tochatihu, Apr 25, 2018
  20. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Malaria is major among mosquitoes' unwanted gifts. There is less evidence than you might imagine that our little enemies are aided by wetter conditions. In past this has lead yours truly to hours of deep, unproductive thought :)

    Most happy to see that clever folks have found a novel mechanism that may improve our understanding of these matters:

    Dehydration prompts more blood feeding by mosquitoes -- ScienceDaily
     
    #340 tochatihu, May 1, 2018
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