Enginer PHEV Test Pilots: Mpg reports and important data

09/03/09 morning commute:
OAT: 52-61 F
mpg per MFD: 70.3
SOC at start: 6 bars
SOC at end: 5 bars

Left balancer:
High cell: 3.305
Dif b/t High/low cell: .019
Voltage: 26.38

Right balancer:
High cell: 3.288
Dif b/t High/low cell: .091
Voltage: 26.12

Comments: nothing special...learning to use the kit more efficiently I suppose.

 

TheForce was one of the first guys on here to get a Hymotion and start reporting his statistics. It was killing us, as he was going about 3 months between fill ups

 

Sometimes I just feel like going to the gas station just to top it off for the month just so I can see what my mpg is. I just don't think my credit card company and the gas station would want me to make a $5 purchase every month. I hate going to the gas station. Nothing but a waste of time. I try to avoid it as long as possible.

 

First impressions with the Enginer on my 2001 Prius:

I got my 2KWH this weekend with two converters; my 4KW is in the mail. So far, I have had two trips. One was yesterday, where I went 60 miles with one converter providing assist -- average speed of 50 mph. Even after one hour, the pack was still providing assist. Starting pack voltage - 54.23, ending voltage 51.45. Interpolated mileage calculated at 62.7, ambient temperature at 64.

Today, I heard the balancer warning for the first time as I charged the pack this morning - one of the cells had gone up to 3.85. I went 29 miles in two separate trips - utilized electric as much as feasible, also combined it with some hypermiling. This time I used a combination of both converters - sometimes using one, sometimes two. Starting voltage 54.11, ending at 52.02. By the time I took my trip, the cells were balanced to within specs. I made the mistake of putting both converters on right away after I had a ready light. I got a DTC code of P3120. Not sure what that means yet. Tried to clear it with my ecros scanguage but it said something about the clear mode being disabled. Does that mean I have to have a dealer free me? Next time, I think I'll wait until I get a load on the battery before kicking in the second converter.

Calculated mileage for this segment was 91.5.

The trip started with good battery support. It was nice to see my mileage go up despite going against a 25-30 mph wind. My first 5 minute bar showed 75mpg. Toward the end of the trip, support was down to about 5 amps using both converters- not adequate for sustained electric mode.

My two converters are mounted on top of each other with a strap holding them down to the case. Not exactly an ideal position for them - I need to figure out a way of getting more air around them and between them. I do have a fan mounted on the exterior of the box with a temperature sensor mounted on the charger, but I am sure it is defective because the fan just doesn't want to shut off after a charging cycle. Any ideas?

 

You have two converters why?

 

Possibly, he might want to supply double the amps to the Prius pack. I've thought about getting a second converter as well.

My experience has been that a single converter doesn't recharge the Prius pack fast enough to avoid SOME charging from the ICE. Putting a second converter online just might cut down on that behavior.

Hypermiling with the Enginer pack is an entirely different animal than without it. I tend to use my glides to extend the time when the Enginer pack is recharging the Prius pack. If I'm not careful I can come home at the end of the day with more than 50% of usable charge left on my 2 kwh pack after a ~40 mile round-trip commute. That's a lot of potential mpg increase that's left sitting in the pack.

I think I'm getting better at it though. I arrived at work yesterday with a 70 mpg reading on the MFD...city driving. I got home with a 65.4 mpg reading...~50% hwy driving. Without the Enginer pack I struggle to reach 60 mpg on the morning commute.

 

The reason for the two converters is to enable me to do a lot more driving on strictly battery -- especially on short trips. With double the amperage, I have a lot better chance. One converter produces about 12 amps when the battery is fully charged. But with half charge, the amps go down fast. A lot of my driving is at hypermiling speeds. Mjfrog had it right.

 

You might want to consider pulling out the spare tire and mounting the converters down in the wheel well, there's enough room for 2 of them and their associate wiring. That's what I did and it made a big difference, there's lots more air flow down there. I still ended up with a few fans and some ductwork (I'll post pic's in a later post once I have a bit more data) to circulate the air and get it out of the car but that area definately worked for me.

 

Post them photos

I've been trying to figure out in my head how to put them down there with ducting that won't get smashed by the Enginer PHEV box.

 

Thought this would be cool to add...



This is the data for a 4 mile trip around La Jolla, CA. It's kinda hilly. I've devised a way that I could get around 100 mpg during the warmup of the car. I'd try to ease my way around the town while the engine is warming up, while doing that, I'd keep trying to re-enter into EV mode. I don't have a Scangauge yet, so I can't really tell when I can and can't enter EV mode. Brute force method always works

So, as you can see, I've averaged over 99.9 MPG over a distance of 31 miles. During my commute to work and around town driving, I used to average around 44 MPG(This was when I'd turn off my older Plug-in Supply kit AND with my defective Enginer kit). After replacing all the parts, it seems to be in tip top shape! It's absolutely great!

More data: Before I had the Enginer kit and I was running the Plug-in Supply kit with the Sealed Lead Acid batteries, I would drive a route probabbly once every two weeks. It would be about 22 miles with a few hills here and there. The second I rolled into the parking lot with the Plug-in Supply kit, I would have run out of juice. I would have averaged greater than 99.9 MPG during the trip.

I ran that same route again Sunday night. I was suprised! Oh my! I rolled into the parking lot after doing 22 miles.. I still had PLENTY of juice. I averaged 99.9 MPG. I then turned around and drove home. The entire trip?? 99.9 MPG. Oh, and I did run out of batteries on the Enginer kit about a few miles before I hit home.

As you all know, there was a few users on PC that doubted the Enginer kit when it first popped up sometime early June or late May. I was also a skeptic at one point until I was convinced otherwise by looking at technical data that Jack sent me. I've driven around enough to put my self behind the kit. To be honest, the guys at Enginer and AutomationTech are MUCH friendlier AND technically inclined than the guys at Plug-in Supply. Sorry to bash, but, I felt as if I were ripped off for what I got. Support was absolute ****. I had a few cases where my kit's BMS+ decided to do a few funky things. I would try calling someone over at Plug-in Supply, no answer. I'd then call my installer, no answer. I'd then shoot an email to Rob over at Plug-in Supply, I'd get an answer probabbly in a day or two. By then, who knows what could have happened with the kit? I could always give Jack a call if anything went wrong or if I had any concerns or comments on the Enginer kit. If you guys haven't heard, I had TWO faulty DC/DC converters, one missing balancer, and one faulty balancer. These were replaced pretty darn fast. Oh, and Jack is VERY open to comments or concerns about the kit/installation. He's also really interested in custom installations of the Enginer kit!

Once I get my Scangauge, expect some more data out of me.

Later on this week, I'll be fabricating my own switch panel mount for the Enginer kit. My main dislike about the panel is that.. it uses an ugly metal switch

The new switch panel will be a sleek plastic insert(The OEM panel inserts) with 2 mini SPST switches to control my two converters(I'm just running one for now until my second arrives ) This panel will also incorporate two brighter LEDs either driven by a 12v rail being controlled by a NPN transistor OR two LEDs that are 1.7v OR use the existing LEDs, but just mount them differently.

I may make more of these if PC users like it It's a simple milling operation that I'll use.. I can CNC the operation if I feel like it.. Those plastic inserts are cheap!

 

I agree that Jack's level of customer service is really high. I've emailed him more than a dozen times and he's always responded promptly. He must be running around like a chicken with his head cut off.

 

Have you thought about talking to Jack about making the switches for him and supplying them to Enginer for their kits.

 

Good post. You mentioned the LED indicators, somethink I can only see when it is dark in my Gen I.

And Jacks responses to questions and defective parts have been fast. I just emailed him about an hour ago, and he has indicated that a new balancer will be in the mail today.

Most of my trips are 5 miles or less, but when I go longer distances, the Enginer pack seems to work GREAT!!! I considering an Engine Block Heater.

Anybody have an opinion on the EBH?


I'm a happy camper also.:rockon:

 

I have the block heater (not installed) and plan to integrate it w/ the 4KWh charging cycle in a 2010....and probably a "Watt's Up" as a battery monitor.

 

I don't really like discussing that stuff until I have an actual product

Sometime next week is when it'll be finished. I'm just waiting for my switches to arrive.

I've already CADed up the part and created the tool paths... We'll see how it looks

 

Hey guys,

I have been using my new converter for 5 days, and it sucks when compared to my old one. Someone on PC told me that the new one only emits 10amps. I think we need the old 20amps model. I got an improvement of 9mpgs; it was 18mpgs before. Then again I don't think I am using the whole pack. I am reluctant to use it on the way back home. The temp is in the mid 90s and this converter gets hot quickly. Well...ttyl.

 

sorry that i am so late into this thread, but your concerns over her getting 49 mpg is groundless.

there is still an improvement and the percentage under similar circumstances for distance and temp should be the same for you. all drivers are different. they can say they drive this way and that way, but they are still different and will get different results in different areas.

 

That wasn't my point. I'm not concerned about her getting 49 MPG.
I was merely pointing out a math error. She reported a 70% improvement when it was actually a 43% improvement. I agree that different drivers will get different results.

 

Update after ten days of use...

I am enjoying the Enginer unit very much. It takes a lot of work to remember to plug it in, unplug it etc. I'm trying to keep a fair amount of data so Jack has some good information.

I had two converters - one mounted on top of the other on the rear side of the battery pack. It didn't look like a good setup and was concerned about the heat build-up. I am running with the case propped open with a couple of boards to improve ventilation. Despite that, I lost my bottom converter on Monday. Jack is sending me another one along with the new smaller battery sets so then I will have 4KWH instead of the 2KWH I have now. I am going to try to mount the new converter outside the box on the right side when I get it Monday.

I am a little concerned about winter coming - both with the decreased power available and with the lack of engine heat for the cabin. I have the grill blocked right now and I'm doing OK on engine heat. It may get up to 95C when I run more "normally" but the fan can bring it down quickly. In winter, it struggles to stay above 70C (even without the heater on), where stealth mode becomes possible. Wouldn't it be nice to route some of that conversion heat into the cabin?

From the time I started using the Enginer on local trips, I am at 98.6 mpg + 1.25% for tire rpm conversion and - 3% for MFD conversion.

With one converter and 2KWH, it is quite difficult to operate in EV mode unless I am willing to go below 20 mph. So what I have been doing is when the battery gets to 56% SOC, I will kick in the gas, accelerate at ~1650 rpm to 35-38 mph, then coast down to 20, then go EV down to 56% and the cycle repeats. With two converters, I was able to keep near 30 for about 10 miles. I am looking forward to my extra 2 KWH and my new converter.

My indicator has yet to turn red. I'm not sure what that means. Yesterday, one of my cells was down to between 1-2 volts (not good), the pack voltages were 23.88+25.75. I attribute the difference in the two packs to the air fan (mounted on the side of the case) which started running while charging yesterday. Once that fan starts, it won't turn off for some reason. Jack is sending me a new sensor. But that fan seems to draw voltage from just one pack instead of two. I could be wrong on this.

As for the balancers, I'm not really sure if they are working well or not. I tried a second balancer on battery pack 1 to compare it. The pack voltage was different - traced it to a different reading for cell #3. I don't have a digital voltmeter to see which is correct. The right pack seems to be operating well with greater and greater consistency although some of the cells have been running high when the charger turns off. But the balancers do bring the spikes down.

How much of an improvement in mileage do I see? So far, in even figures maybe 100/75-80 = 25-33%. (My last local tank without the Enginer was my best ever at 985 miles, 80.5 on the monitor, 77.57 by fill.) But then again, I don't have to be so careful to extract every mile possible out of that gallon of gas. I spend more time in the 30 mph range and less in the 25-18 mph range. I also have changed two tires since the Enginer and two more tires since about 2000 miles ago. New tires usually cut 4-5% on mileage.

One other thing - I still have my DTC P3120. I got it when I turned on both converters immediately after starting the vehicle. Bad move. That has sub-codes and I am unable to delete it with my ecrostech scan guage. I may have to get the Scanguage II - hopefully I could use that in both my 01 and my 04 Pri.

Kudos to Jack - he has been great for product support.

 

I've been thinking of getting a PHEV system for some time for my 2006 Prius, but was holding off because of the cost. My local installer (3Prong Power in Berkeley) is now offering the 4kw Engineer system for $4449. So, I'm interested again.

I read the title of this thread and know where you guys are coming from, but the "data" reported in this thread is very confusing and basically useful to a guy (or gal) who just wants to turn on his Prius and go. Frankly, you guys are just way too compulsive for me, if you've got to worry about ICE warm up times, using a block heater, gliding, turning off and on the EV at stop signs, etc. in order to maximize mileage.

I think Joanne had the right idea when she said she just wanted to report "real world" results, but she got caught up in the "validity of the data" debate, which just isn't real world. None of us lives in a testing facility and most of us just want to get from here to there without obsessing about how to squeak the last 0.1 gallon of mileage out of the car.

The most I'd want to do is turn on EV when I leave the house to make short trips to the store or around town and then switch it to mixed mode (or turn if off) when I hit the highway. I get 40-42mpg driving my Prius with mostly highway and some city driving. From my general impressions of the reports in this thread, you can improve your combined overall mileage by about 50% from around 40-50 to 60-75 (as reported here and in other threads) with the Engineer system.

If so, I will be making an appointment to install an Engineer 4kw system soon and, if I report any results here, it will just be a comparison between what I got before (40-42) and what I got latter, without considering ANY of the operational variables. That will make the results reported worthless to you testing geeks out there, but for most of us that's good enough.

Ciao! :focus: