Engine Seized after oil change...filter fell out car....owner won't pay at all

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(brick @ Aug 17 2007, 01:56 PM) [snapback]497921[/snapback]</div>

Checking oil with a dipstick is a reasonable precaution. Checking for loose oil filters on a regular basis is not. People pay for oil changes because they don't want to get their hands and clothes grimy and have to dispose of used oil. Checking for loose oil filters will result in a grimy hand and grimy shirt sleeve, if the car owner can even locate the oil filter.

A loose oil filter can retain all the oil for some period of time, say 5 days, and then unscrew and let out all the oil in a very short period of time.

That's not too fanciful a guess as to what happened. Did the oil leak out slowly over time, or did it all come out suddenly? If the filter fell off, I'd choose the latter as most likely.

In either scenario, the mechanic is at fault and should pay the damages.

Harry

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(abq sfr @ Aug 15 2007, 11:27 PM) [snapback]496701[/snapback]</div>

I'm one of the "simple people" you so lovingly refer to; I think your tone is quite offensive and, frankly, you'd deserve to have your car messed up (or your food spat in, or your drink stirred with the bartender's penis, or your trash spilled on your driveway, or whatever) for looking down on others, based only on what they do for a living.

The "simplest people." Very, very nice.

And I'm sure this attitude of yours is *never* noticed by the "simple people," either...'cause we're brain-dead, and you're so sophisticated.

Maybe they're messing with you on purpose.

 

Well, I would suggest sueing for the whole amount, this dude is definitely to blame and no type of bullshit he can throw at you will change that. I know your small claims court only goes up to 3k, so you might have went up to a higher court but...

You can't offer to pay half, and then sue for the whole amount. You shouldn't have said a damn thing, and sued the guy right off the bat. Now, the highest amount you can sue for would be the lowest amount you asked him for...

Not saying that you did anything wrong, but by saying that you will pay half, that kinda looks like you feel you might have been neglecting something and you feel you should share the blame.

Like I said, this is totally his fault, and you should have got a lawyer right after he said he wouldn't pay for the damages.

Sorry guy, but it seems like you just got f**ked.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Winston @ Aug 17 2007, 11:22 AM) [snapback]497872[/snapback]</div>

Airplanes aren't cars and pilots aren't the operators of a road vehicle.

And, while you may not check the actual work done to that Cessna, you can check the maintenance records to see *when* it was done, what was done, and by whom.

And if the plane's just come out of an annual, you'd better believe I'm going to check lots more than just the tension of the alternator belt!

I don't think the comparison between airplanes and automobiles is really is applicable in this case. There are no specified procedures for a "pre-drive" procedure in a car; there is nothing on the driver's test which examines how well one does their "pre-drive"; there is no checklist in the owner's manual that specifies a "pre-drive" checklist procedure to be done every time before the car is operated.

Heck, the owner's manual isn't even required, by law, to be in the car (as it is with aircraft).

They're really very different in a lot of ways, I think.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Aug 14 2007, 11:26 PM) [snapback]495878[/snapback]</div>

Except the reason I STOPPED doing my own oil changes after many years of doing them was due to a similar error on MY part! I didn't notice that the old oil filter O-ring was still stuck to the block ('86 Mazda 626). At some point the seal between the old and new rings started to let loose. I was luckier however, the oil light came on, I stopped immediately and had the car towed to a service station. No engine damage. But I had a LEAK, noillusions had a GUSH.

However, since the local Toyota dealer can't seem to change the oil properly even though I give them the oil and tell them how much to put in, I might start doing my own again, being REALLY careful to check for the old O-ring.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(noillusions @ Aug 17 2007, 12:20 PM) [snapback]497904[/snapback]</div>

He doesn't want to pay any.

If he complains that now he's being asked to pay it all, you can say you were generous and made him an offer which he refused. That offer is now off the table. He had his chance.

When I was dealing with Borrego Solar (different thread) my final e-mail in which I refused their offer and restated my own was....they could take it or leave it. If they left it I would refuse final payment and they were free to take me to an arbitrator or court. I would be more than happy to present my documentation to the arbitrator or judge. But they take the risk that the arbitrator or judge will side with me and make them pay the entire amount. (This for a 2,000 electrical upgrade they knew I needed before I even signed the contract but not only failed to tell me but deliberately lied to cover the fact until all work was complete and the city inspector failed my final inspection.) They took the deal.

You've got it harder as my documentation of their duplicitiousness is more concrete.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NicksBlackBrid @ Aug 17 2007, 02:51 PM) [snapback]497961[/snapback]</div>

BULL.

She started off being nice. Too nice. The shop screwed up and is hoping she'll cave if they are aggressive.
I bet if it was Gov. Arnold in front of them he'd have the check within 5 minutes. The fact that she offered a deal at the outset does not preclude suing for the entire cost if it comes to that. The shop turned down her deal. I do not think she is being litigious. It is a clear case of improperly performed service from a business that is not willing to stand up to its obligations. You screw up, you make good. If the shop had ANY business credibility, they would kiss her feet, apologize profusely and pay up without a fuss. They should be happy it didn't seize in a dangerous situation. What if she was on the Interstate and the tailgater behind slammed into her when the car slowed down rapidly? Can you imagine the complicated law suits in a multi car pileup with death resulting??

I would check with the Better Business Bureau in case this business has been reported before. If so, it would be in your favor. As reported, it is not possible that you did anything wrong.

And I do NOT agree that people should have to check work done by a professional. I do check the oil after they change it, only because the local dealer has proven to be incapable of filling it properly. Am I supposed to take the tires off to make sure they are properly balanced? I guess I have to buy a tire balancing machine. Check the lug nuts after the shop rotates the tires to make sure they remembered to tighten them properly? If my washing machine is repaired, am I supposed to check to make sure all the hose clamps were tightened?? Maybe I should do a chemical analysis of everything I eat. Sorry, none of this is reasonable. If you pay someone to do the work, it should be done correctly. If not, they need to make it right. Sometimes it costs them a lot of money.

And to the person who said they check oil, clean windows and check tire pressure at the gas station:
I would skip that last part. You've been driving the car, the tires are no longer 'cold'. You will be setting the pressure too low.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NicksBlackBrid @ Aug 17 2007, 11:51 AM) [snapback]497961[/snapback]</div>

When the prosecuter offers the defendant a plea bargain of 10 years for a manslaughter charge, then the defendant refuses, does that mean that in court he can only ask for 10 years? Um no, of course not. That is the incentive for the guy to take the deal now, instead of risking a higher sentance later. Same goes for the mechanic when she offered to let him off the hook for $3k.

 

Well, I probably won't make friends with this next part, but I am curious.... Did the filter fall completely off? or did it simply loosen to the point that the oil came out? The reason I ask is this... I have seen drain plugs left loose which either drip, or fall out and lose all the oil very quickly. Drain plugs have only gravity as pressure on the oil. If a filter begins to loosen, once the seal of the oring is broken, the oil at that point is under full pump pressure. It should have sprayed out all the oil well before the filter could vibrate and spin loose the rest of the way...

I say "should have" because I have seen cars do some amazing things. Engines that run on for HOURS after losing ALL their oil with no aparent damage, engines that seize after losing only a quart or two, and don't get me started on electrical gremlins!

I suppose it is POSSIBLE for a filter to fall completely off the engine while it running, I simply find it highly improbable. If it was simply loosened and the oil was pumped out, OH YES!!! That situation I find MUCH MORE likely, especially since Prius turns the ICE on and off causing vibration without oil pressure....

My opinion remains that the shop that did the oil change should be responsible for replacement of the engine. After all, if you go to the doctor to have your appendix removed and he leaves a clamp inside you, is that your fault because you didn't count his instruments when he was done?

 

You can sue him for the full amount.

Be prepared for the judge to modify the amount when you win. The judge may take into account the mileage, age, etc of your original engine and figure in depreciation. I.E. if a new engine costs $3,000 but your original engine is only worth $2,000 after figuring for depreciation, he'll take $1,000 off of the judgement as being your responsibility and GarageDude will be stuck paying the rest. If the judge does this you will still be way ahead; you'll get more than doing nothing and you'll get more than if he had taken your original offer.

You think he'd realize this. But if he's too stupid to correctly change the oil he's also too stupid to realize that your offer was as good as he was going to get. He probably misjudged you and figured you'd do nothing.

Sorta where I am now. I'm going to small claims court in two weeks to get the cost of my rental car from the guy who backed into me. His insurance said they'd only pay for 5 days, then 10 days. I told them all. They paid nothing. Now I'm taking it out of his hide. I'm sure both he and his insurance company thought I wouldn't bother to sue. Wrong. His insurance company kept trying to scare me off saying they'd send their lawyers to court to defend their client. Wrong again. No lawyers in small claims. It's him against me. And he's gonna lose. And when he loses he'll pay for rental PLUS court costs. And his insurance company will still end up paying for the entire thing. Plus he'll lose a day's work and wages. And I'll give him the name of my insurance company and suggest he switch.

 

keep us posted on this as I would like to hear what the end results will be.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SaxyBiz @ Aug 14 2007, 11:58 PM) [snapback]495904[/snapback]</div>

If you are driving at freeway speeds, and the low oil pressure light comes on, you may have already done irreversable damage.
If the oil filter was loose, it is 100% the garages liability, you should win that case hands down.
He would have no claim to say your driving with the red light on caused the damage. His negligence did.

Even though I am a "rookie poster", my credibility on this subject is beyond dispute. Please see my bio.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(stukid @ Aug 18 2007, 10:45 AM) [snapback]498335[/snapback]</div>

I think it also speaks volumes that with your background you chose to purchase a Prius.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(noillusions @ Aug 18 2007, 11:10 AM) [snapback]498324[/snapback]</div>

Done and did......

 

that's a nail in the coffin, alright.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(noillusions @ Aug 18 2007, 10:46 AM) [snapback]498375[/snapback]</div>

It's a slam dunk.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(noillusions @ Aug 18 2007, 12:46 PM) [snapback]498375[/snapback]</div>

Letter on letterhead from repair tech. Sue for full amount. Go ahead and send him a certified letter. His a$$ is grass. Better he settles out of court for the full amount as you still run the risk of the judge depreciating your engine.

What's the DMV supposed to do?