Engine Conversion ?? Unleaded Petroleum (petro) to diesel

Re: Engine Conversion ?? Unleaded Petroleum (petro) to diese

Any time anyone says diesel conversion I cringe. The only thing I can remember that refers to diesel conversion are those terrible early 80s diesels from GM. Especially the one that was built on the 350 V8. GM was really stupid, they took a gas engine and decided to make it diesel. Typically a diesel of that displacement would be much more heavily built in many different areas, crank, cam, heads, cylinder walls, pistons, etc. etc.

The 6.2L diesel wasn't anything to get excited about either, however it was basically a diesel from the ground up, but that 350 that was put in passenger cars, like Buicks, Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs was a terrible engineering kludge and stained GMs reputation in the deployment of diesel automobiles for many years to come. Anyway, the point is to try to reingineer the Prius engine to accept diesel and perform acceptably for the original design life of the vehicle is basically impossible. It isn't in Toyota's nature to take a GM like path. Now it wouldn't surprise me if Toyota experimented with a diesel powerplant specifically designed for the Prius setup, however it hasn't made it to production and I bet that the economy benefit is not economically viable. Not to mention that even with clean burning diesels and clean diesel fuel (read low sulfur) it probably won't even come close to performing like the Prius does now.

 

Well, you took some of the words out of my mouth about those wretched G.M. diesels, but all of their diesels were dogs for decades.

Example: for years I have owned diesel trucks, favoring the International Harvester powered ones, the people at Ford really did well to put that proven powerplant into the F series lineup. In all used vehicle books the International Harvester diesel in those F series Fords held the resale value up an amount equal to or higher than the orginal price difference of the diesel vs the gasoline engine versions.

The Dodge trucks that had the Cummings diesel commanded a slight amount more than the gas versions.

But the G.M. trucks with the G.M. diesels? Always a hefty discount.

G.M. builds junk, period. I have bought two new and they were both solid lemons, neither would start reliably and the dealer techs couldn't fix the problems, I sold them off and was delighted to be rid of those dogs. The fifth time I took the brand new Suburban (1997) back for failure to start, the tech guy actually said "well, it is a G.M."

They know they build junk, they even apoligized for fobbing off junk on the American public. Doubt me? Google "G.M. apoligizes for junk"

 

Re: Engine Conversion ?? Unleaded Petroleum (petro) to diese

Robert:

For every GMC owner, like you and I, who has had it with their junk, there are many more blind followers who feel it's somehow their Patriotic Duty to buy another one.

If there isn't a problem with their new Duramax diesels, how about the new Vortec gas motors? That Piston Slap site is quite popular. Mine started making that diesel knocking noise before it had 6,000km on it, and the dealer claimed "carbon deposits."

I'm not sure what GM claims now for their infamous knocking motors. It's kind of fun for me to silently glide through a mall parking lot and wait for a Vortec motor to start up: knock knock knock knock knock knock knock

Try to explain to a potential buyer of your truck that the high oil consumption and knocking are all "normal" and you even have the TSB to "prove" it. They look at you like you just stepped out of a flying saucer and leave.

And to those blindly following GMC buyers: If GM LD diesel motors were so s*** hot, why did GM have to get a new purpose-built LD diesel from their subsidiary, Isuzu? So far, the Duramax motor appears to hold up, but so many folks were burned by junk LD diesels from GM that it may never recover.

Jay

 

Re: Engine Conversion ?? Unleaded Petroleum (petro) to diese

If you're really keen on a diesel hybrid, you could just wait a bit longer until Toyota put the diesel-electric ES3 into production (could be a while though :roll: ). Alternatively, both GM and VW are soon to release diesel-electrics over here in Europe (VW within the next couple of years alledgedly) - so you could maybe import one.

For the ultimate eco-hit, however, I'd recommend a bit more battery capacity first (like the Prius-plus conversion), and then add some solar cells (like this). The potential is there to cut your gas use in half again. 8)

 

I have no wonders why Prius isn't a factory diesel hybrid - the market and technology isn't ready for mass appeal! You're talking about a prototype, which shows what is POSSIBLE and great, but not necessarily marketable on a mass scale, or acheving the goal of ultra low emissions and developing a platfform for EVERY toyota vehicle to adapt someday.

We hear lots of talk about clean diesels, but where would most of us buy this fuel? Where can we buy these cars with the advanced emissions systems? It's not really valid for most of us if we can't buy the fuels we need.. even the up and coming low sulfur diesel still has far more sulfur than the new gasoline standard. It's not really valid for mass market if only a few peope can buy the clean fuel, and no carmaker currently is offering the clean burning diesel tech.

We all know the Prius has extra costs to Toyota over a regular vehicle, I think the car is a good value for consumers (not the CHEAPEST, but a good value) though I doubt it's the most profitable car in their lineup (even if they are turning a profit, as they insist). Diesel engines do cost more, that would be a big cost to add on.

Plus, I'm not ready to buy a diesel until someone shows me this quiet, clean auto driving all around. I hear about it, but I don't see them! The VWs I see on the road still emit particulates I can see, even the late models! Ick! Prius isn't the car to change these perceptions. They had enough work to do on the hybrid perception.

If the technology can get there on a mass scale someday, I say great! We need all the good tech we can get. But first I say, let's prove it! Other than prototypes, special (not readily available) fuels, and lots of talk, I don't see these clean diesels around. It's like a fuel cell, sounds great on paper, supposedly they're driving around, but a few bugs to work out first.

 

Re: Engine Conversion ?? Unleaded Petroleum (petro) to diese

I think the term "low sulphur diesel" in North America is a bit misleading, as it will *still* have about twice the sulphur as the diesel fuel in Europe.

Maybe try "lower sulphur diesel."

The really effective LD diesel emissions controls, which dramatically reduce particulates, only appear to run on the EU-spec diesel.

 

Re: Engine Conversion ?? Unleaded Petroleum (petro) to diese

The idea, though, is not to run it on fossil fuel diesel, but straight vegetable oil (SVO). Negligible sulphur, cleaner emissions, local production meaning big savings in transportation.

The price of SVO is falling almost as fast as the price of fossil fuel is going up, so it won't be too long before it's a good bit cheaper than diesel, and then it will begin to appear at mainstream pumps.

Note, with an electrically heated tank and fuel line, SVO can be used directly and there is no need to go through all the energy and chemical inefficiencies of making biodiesel.

 

Re: Engine Conversion ?? Unleaded Petroleum (petro) to diese

Clett:

I think if you live in a moderate climate then SVO may indeed be a good alternative. Especially when you consider it's currently dumped somewhere to become a disgusting mess.

Beyond a certain low temp, perhaps 0 F or -18 C, an electric tank heater and fuel line heater will lose the battle to keep it flowing. Some large road transports here have heat exchangers in the fuel tanks, with engine coolant plumbed into them, to keep the tanks warm at -40.

I'm wondering with the very tight tolerances of modern unit injectors if a cosolvent still isn't needed.

Jay

 

Re: Engine Conversion ?? Unleaded Petroleum (petro) to diese

Yup. Over here in the summer I can run my car on straight SVO without any heaters / heat exchangers etc. Doing it this way is really popular in Germany, with millions of miles done the same way.

Come winter, though, a favourite trick of the SVO brigade is to add some normal dino-diesel to the tank (when very cold 50:50), or even a splash of petrol (gasoline). This gives it the lubricity required to pump easily.

Over here SVO is half the price of diesel, but using it without paying tax is illegal!

 

Re: Engine Conversion ?? Unleaded Petroleum (petro) to diese

Wouldn't it be safer for the unit injectors if a suitable cosolvent like turpentine or methyl ether ketone was used? Most of the heavy duty truck makers in Europe, such as MAN and Mercedes, approve MEK as a cosolvent if running rapeseed-derived biodiesel.

 

Re: Engine Conversion ?? Unleaded Petroleum (petro) to diese

I think a specific co-solvent will probably appear once SVO use becomes much more widespread among the general public (just as octane boosters are now), but for now we just make do with what's easily available - and gas or diesel does the trick nicely.

As for adding co-solvents when using biodiesel, it's surprising they say that as the reason biodiesel is made from SVO (such as rape methyl-ester, RME) is so that it can be run in a normal diesel engine without any alterations. All of VW's TDi engines have been designed to run fine on RME for years, so it's surprising the truck designers haven't done the same.

 

Re: Engine Conversion ?? Unleaded Petroleum (petro) to diese

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As far as I know, Mercedes and MAN heavy duty motors of fairly recent vintage are approved to run MEK cosolvents's and rapeseed-derived fuels. Quite possibly other heavy duty trucks, such as Iveco, are also approved.

Volvo had some problems with their unit injectors and for now don't allow MEK colsolvents or rapeseed-derived blends.