Featured Elon Musk’s big lie about Tesla is finally exposed

Speeding up beyond the set speed to pass requires changing the set speed (moving the thumb wheel) or hitting the accelerator. Otherwise FSD won't pass if the other driver sped up enough. I hit the accelerator. The system gives a warning that it will not brake (it will just bleed down to the set speed, unless there is traffic ahead and then it will brake). If you change the set speed then you need to lower it back down.

FSD will try to change lanes before your cars ADAS, but I have found that letting it do that often has it changing too often, so I set it to minimize lane changes. Then if I want to pass I'll use my directional to tell it to change lanes.

 

The first time ( the extreme example described above ) happened to me I had just gotten on the I-nterstate on an 800 miler. I didn't notice I was going 55 with the DRCC set at 65 for at least 10 or 20 miles. And I didn't notice any indicators on the normal DRCC screens either. Will FSD behave like that too, ie: not give any indication that the cruise set speed is slowly decreasing?

I wouldn't have even noticed ( or remembered especially the next couple times it happened ) if the other driver(s) had let me pass at my set speed.

 

We do need better data. That's why NHTSA finally started collecting the info on them. Sooner would have been nicer, and the collection rate isn't the same for all, but it is better than trusting the manufacturers with nontransparent methods.

Humans are lazy and complacent in general, and US drivers are poorly trained. they receive less training than an airplane pilot for visual only rules, let alone instrument flying and autopilot. Yet we give them that equivalent with these ADAS without more than putting an owner's manual in the glove box. We can say the driver is the one ultimately in control, but that doesn't change the possibility of the better working systems leading to more drivers overestimating the capabilities of the system without adequate driver minders.

A post here talked about driving a Tesla on FSD into the setting sun while in a down pour. Those are both situations the Tesla manual warns against using the ADAS in. Yet the poster praised how well it worked. Are the cameras immune to sun glare? Does the system know to be easier in applying brakes in poor weather? Does it know what to do if hydroplaning occurs? Can it even tell if it is hydroplaning?

While the total numbers may just look worse for Tesla than the actual rate, they are the ones talking up the capabilities of the ADAS, named it Autopilot against the wishes of their engineers, and been promising full self driving for years. You called it puffery before, but that can have impact on the public consciousness when at scale.

Kudos to Mercedes to being honest and calling their system Level 3. That's the ADAS level where hands off and the driver is a supervisor under limited conditions happens. FSD, TJA, BlueCruise, Super Cruise, and whoever else using Level 2 for that are lying.

 

Well currently, AP and FSD use two completely different set of code and from what I understand, it has always been that way. My hope is when Tesla combines the city driving and highway driving in the same stack (V12, highway driving still uses FSD V11, which is also different than AP) later on in the 12.5 version, that they replace the Autopilot code with the FSD code but with a switch to limit to highway driving, with auto re-engagement of AP (which seems to be a pain point for NHTSA) after a lane change and the new driver engagement code (also another pain point for NHTSA). It would make it much simpler for them to maintain just one code base.

 

Flying a plane in IFR is absolutely NOT the same thing as driving a car with ADAS. Why would you even mention that?

I said AFTER a downpour, not WHILE in a downpour and in AP, not FSD. I won't even use cruise control during a downpour for the fear of aquaplaning. The roads were wet from the downpour and reflecting the sun which made the lines almost invisible to my eyes but the cameras had no problem seeing them.

 

Depends in what mode you've set FSD in (changeable on the fly through the steering wheel right scroll wheel), Comfort, Normal, Assertive. In Comfort mode, it will stay behind the car until you activate manually the turn signal, then it will pass the car at the next availability time. In Normal, it will get behind it and after while, it will automatically put the turn signal, warn you it's about to change lane and give you a second or two to override then pass the car if you let it change lane. In Assertive, it will work like Normal but do it sooner.

 

That Mercedes Level 3 is basically "traffic jam assist" as it only works in the day in good weather, at slow speed, if there is a car ahead of it and no construction zone. And on very restricted segments of highways (could almost write highway instead of highways since there are so few). It's useless almost everywhere/anytime. I find it's more a publicity stunt than anything else.

 

"Level 3: Conditional Automation
Under Level 3, vehicles gain the ability to manage most aspects of driving under certain conditions, allowing drivers to disengage from active control. When comparing Level 2 autonomous vehicles to those classified as Level 3 – control is the subtle, but key difference. Whilst Levels 0 to 2 encompass a range of driver assistance features, they cannot handle tasks independently. At Level 3, self-driving vehicles exhibit the capability to independently handle specific tasks and scenarios, yet they retain the necessity for a human driver to assume control when prompted or when faced with situations beyond the system’s capabilities."
Elon Musk’s big lie about Tesla is finally exposed | Page 15 | PriusChat

Sounds like TJA, BlueCruise, etc. are all Level 3.

 

Yes, and I stated what those conditions are for Mercedes Level 3 ADAS to be operational, which is similar to what traffic jam assist is, with the addition of being unusable almost everywhere. Again, publicity stunt.

 

With that logic why would anyone want a cell phone when with a regular touchtone landline you can call all the same people?

Mike

 

With that logic? Personally I'm burnt out on the "you need this because it's better" and "you need that because it's improved." This is especially true of tech companies. Microsoft is always sending ads in it's own apps. "Congratulations, you have the newest and best version of Edge!, Try out the newest version of Windows, because [list of things that don't matter to me]!" Even Apple does the same thing. I keep getting ads about how Safari is the best web browser, that I need Safari, and yet I don't own a single Apple product.

The same is true of cellphones, cars, and everything else. Why on earth do I need the latest and greatest? I don't care if my phone has a camera, I don't take pictures with my phone, and don't care if anyone else does. I don't need the latest and greatest to send people pictures of what I had for dinner. I'm so burnt out on social media and such I'm wondering if I should just stop paying for internet and call it a day. And sure, my Avalon is a little safer, a little more reliable, and gets a little better fuel mileage than my 1996 Buick LeSabre. But the Buick actually held 6 people, the rear seats actually folded down so you could put larger items in it and still have a sedan, and I could actually work on it, or find someone who could work on it in town. Not like these blasted Toyotas that nobody in town can do any sort of techincal work to them, like fix the radio.

Why on earth should I buy a new Toyota, or any other car for that matter? What's so great about all this new tech that I should make the move? "Because it's faster" "Because instant torque" "Because, blah, blah ,blah." Let them try to make good products and I'll be the judge of whether a product is an improvement or not.

 

someone's off their meds

 

Yes, but seriously. Why do kids these days want the latest and greatest iPhone that's literally just a hair thinner and a tad bit faster than the one they have now?

Tesla is a great company, but I'm not at all sold on any of this self driving tech. About the only automatically controlled tech that seems to help are antilock braking, stability control and automatic braking. At least when they work correctly. When cars can drive better than humans, I'll believe it. On the other hand, that's just another reason why cars are becoming more boring, and I fail to understand why we keep touting personal vehicles as the way to transport ourselves when it's becoming more of a necessary pain than a voluntary joy to do.

 

the desires of the human heart are difficult to fathom. but i doubt kids are any different. companies figured out a long time ago how to appeal to these desires. electronics seam to have an especially strong attraction, i feel it myself. but sneakers are also attractive to many.
i agree with most of your points, and i'm not interested in fsd in it's current state. but i do think pushing out updates to improve safety is a good thing.

 

Right. Updates can have pros and cons, but generally pros. Although again, I guess personally it doesn't matter that much to me what updates get shipped out or not. If it weren't for the pushiness of companies I'd still be running Windows 7 and carrying around a Nokia bar phone. But alas, I guess it was safety reasons that got me to sell my 1972 VW Beetle and buy the Nissan Leaf that didn't pan out, and eventually because a down payment for our Avalon.

 

Well since mentioning iphone new tech and updates for OSs an stuff (sorry I don;t know what Elons big lie is about, I'm still kinda interested in M2 devs, but the estimated MSRP keeps rising as I was afraid it might )
I was struck by take on the shiny new stuff syndrome. that many open source users of times long gone now used to talk about regularly at meetups and forums.
I was just laughing to myself out load today while working on my old computer about how bad open source is getting with the new advances and updates that all the new users must love, I guess.

Not wanting to be alarmist or anything of that nature, but if you take a look at whats coming in the next few years because of what industry already has it's kinda scary. For instance, the new EUV etching tech from the Dutch company ASML that the best chipmaker in Tiawan TSMC has already been using to make Apples Processors for the last 2 years. Samsung also has one of ASML's EUV etching machines. I think the latest transistor tech is called gate all around, but that might be old already too. Surprise. updates to most everything in our lives is going to be coming at an ever increasing rate from today on out there, were ever out there turns out to be. Hold on Loosely 38 special
Industry's fascination with AI coupled with cell / computer innovation is going to be, well, futuristic,
for lack of a better way to describe it.

 

Yes, or we'll all be staring at some other type of visual entertainment.

 

Me, I would rather have a device that can remain close to what is currently offered without having to buy a new one. That's one reason my phone is a Google Pixel and my car a Tesla. None of them become obsolete the day I buy them. My Pixel 6 still runs the latest OS (14) and my Tesla still runs the latest firmware (2024.26.3) that a new one bought right now would be running. My Pixel might be close to no longer receiving feature upgrade but not my Model 3.

 

my bolt was obsolete before i bought it, but i love it and can't see another ev i would prefer at the price point

 

I don't think there was a better value for the dollar in the Automotive world than the Bolt when you bought it (when the incentives was factored in).