ElectroMagnetic force field

High altitude nuclear detonation produces EMP (Electro Magnetic Pulse) effects due to the "charge-pair" phenomenom that can occur in the Van Allen Radiation Belt.

There is a fascinating book on the subject: "EMP Environment and System Hardness Design," By Dr. Rabindra N. Ghose. Dr. Ghose has a lot of practical system design experience from the Cold War and has done a lot of practical experimentation on the subject matter.

Be forewarned, the book is filled with a lot of scary Calculus.

EMP and EMF are, for the most part, unrelated. EM field radiation may or may not be harmful, unless you have medical implants that will go absolutely bonkers. As an example, a friend of mine in Utah has a wife with MS. She has implants to control her pain, and she must avoid microwave ovens or any other source of specific microwave radiation. Same if you have an implantable heart defibrillator or pacemaker.

Daniel: I think this FINALLY explains why when I walk down the street, my head is just FILLED with pornographic images. My head is bombarded with satellite porn!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hdrygas\";p=\"59658)</div>

You're thinking of EMP (Electo-Magnetic Pulse).

 

Maybe I need to move to Winnipeg.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel\";p=\"59753)</div>

:lol:

And some streets seem to offer better "reception" than others!

:lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman\";p=\"59694)</div>

EMP yep that’s the one where we kiss our cars good by. With dyslexia this stuff can get mixed up on occasion that’s why with important stuff I write it out! On the subject of tinfoil I had a permanent metal plate installed the only problem is that since I have taken up yoga it turns into a satellite dish when I stand on my head. Debbie doing Dallas really brakes up your concentration.

 

lol.... Henry?? how many channels can your head get??

if you can top DirecTV, i be interested !!

 

If EMP ever happened, you could kiss a lot of things goodbye, especially the electricity grid and the telecomm grid. All those wires act as antennae, and many are accidently tuned to perfect 1/4, 1/2, and full wavelength.

 

EMF & Tomatoes

> HAs anyone been able to find info on hybrid EMF fields? I've searched
> for a couple years and can't find a thing on it. I have an EMF specialist
> I'll ask about the fields generated by the voltage in a pure hybrid like
> the Prius and report back.

I also had trouble finding anything in the literature so I've been doing my own low-tech research. On the good side, if I idle it near the garden a lot I seem to get a longer season for my tomatoes. If I overdo it they get so big and heavy that they break the branches, so don't do too much.

On the bad side, in the spring and fall I get flocks of confused looking Canada geese flying in circles over my driveway. I have to turn off the car periodically so they can be on their way. You suppose all those goose droppings are good for tomatoes???

 

I actually did a bit of study on EMF and other radiation from CRT as related to pregnancy. I have to say that the data I found was not real good. There was the meta analysis mentioned prior in this thread but I have to say the quality of data was not great to draw sound conclusions at that time. I would say it is still up in the air because of the data is not good at this point. I think that it could go either way at this point. We have much to learn. Epidemiological data is very difficult to interpret. I think that it is slightly more positive than negative at this point but not at all certian.

 

That's part of the problem. CRT's that are over-driven emit X-rays. A known danger. Radars can cause damage by tissue heating. (A problem I personally experienced in the 80's)
But there are no reputable studies that point to any damage from EMF caused by cell-phones, power lines or any other device operating at lower frequencies.
To the technologically-uneducated masses "Radiation is Radiation". Trying to explain the physics involved is impossible when the audience is more educated in mass-media sports than mathematics and the physical sciences.
So we're stuck with a range of pseudo-scientific beliefs that are widely clung to. From homeopathic medicine to Scientific Creationism to UFO's, the filtering effects of ignorance roll on.
And notice that a common characteristic of these modern voodoos is that "THEY" are suppressing the "TRUTH".
The danger is that believers attempt to legislate what they cannot otherwise prove.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hdrygas\";p=\"59939)</div>

There is an awful lot of data already in existence at this point; I interpret the above to be another way of saying that weak or non-existent effects are the hardest to prove or disprove.

Something with drastic health effects (like cigarette smoking, for example) is very easy to prove in epidemiology because the differences in long-term health outcomes between smokers and non-smokers are so large, and because one can have a well-defined control group of non-smokers and measure exactly how many cigarettes per day a smoker uses. Same with the effects of elevated lead, to pick another example.

The problems with trying to measure what (if any) health effects low frequency electromagnetic fields have is that A) if there is any effect at all it is very weak and B) it's hard to quantify the exposure, and hard to find someone with no exposure at all.

One must also distinguish different frequencies. Both radio and x rays involve electromagnetic fields, but of course the energy per photon is vastly different. One big divide is the energy needed to ionize molecules, which is a few eV for weaker transitions and that's ultraviolet light (sunburn and tanning are manifestations of radiation damage). Stepping up the frequency into x rays provides enough energy per photon to knock out inner-shell electrons. Stepping down in energy, in the microwave and infrared you can hit resonances for specific molecular vibrations (microwave ovens are tuned to a water resonance at 2,500,000,000 Hertz, while power lines run at 60 Hertz) and transfer heat into conductors (like metal medical implants) but you won't ionize molecles. If you go well below that, however, it is difficult to see what the possible mechanisms are for biological effects from low frequency electromagnetic fields, especially since our body has all sorts of electrophysiological activity going on as a steady background noise.

In conclusion, I am not at all worried about the fields my Prius produces, and if I had an electric blanket I would be far more worried about an electrical shock than electromagnetic fields. Our society should spend more time worrying about things that have overwhelmingly large health effects, like smoking, obesity, and excess consumption of alcohol. Instead, we have people who are 50 pounds overweight, puffing on a cigarette, and saying "How can we be sure that power lines aren't harmful?"

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(altaskier\";p=\"59952)</div>

Exactly. I've also noticed these folks subscribe to the General Conspiracy Theory Of Everything to explain whatever bad happens in their lives. I too believe in Conspiracy Theory: Stupidity and Ignorance appear to rule the lives of many otherwise fine people, and THAT is a conspiracy!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sailboss\";p=\"59951)</div>

Then there was the janitor who "won" a Darwin Award when he warmed himself in front of a radar on a cold night. The X ray part of the CRT question was easy. That was lead me to EMF question and things got mirky, somewhat like the questions that swirled around diagnostic ultrasound. There is no answer to the "what if you did a larger study" question except that at some point we get to increased risk figures that are meaningless.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kenmce\";p=\"59895)</div>

Nope. Too much nitrogen causes the plant to produce tremendous quantities of green leaf and branch, but the tomatos never ripen. You want a nitrogen-poor soil for tomatos. And guano is notoriously rich in nitrogen.

On the other hand, sweet corn needs lots of nitrogen. So if you can get those geese to fly over your corn patch you'll be in business.

 

despite the circular nature of this thread, the info is still very interesting.

to find someone who has not had exposure to emf would be impossible. to say difficult would be a huge understatement.

we are bombarded with emf from the day we are conceived just as every living organism in the world is. those rays are what helps us maintain life as we know it here.

there are several movies that stretch the truth a bit (ok ok!!, so they invent a lot of truths also!!) that discuss consequences that might arise if we no longer had a magnetic shield. rest assured, there will be no one left to study the effects.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA\";p=\"60089)</div>

I think there's a few rather different things mixed in the above.

• 
  I know this is off the track of Prius discussions but it's good to be precise about what phenomena one is talking about rather than mixing them together.

 

If higher hybrid EMF is not harmful, then there's no cause for the query. The defibrillator issue is quite separate: a worry about interference in electronics rather than cancer risks from EMF.

The recommendation that people with pacemakers and defibrillators not use digital phones is more likely to reflect a fear on the part of the doctor of electrical interference between the phone and the circuitry of the pacemaker. It is a recommendation based on the doctor being overcautious (which is reasonable). However, if it were a real risk, one would expect problems if anyone within a short distance of a pacemaker patient had their phone ring or made a call - not just the pacemaker patient. Since I don't hear stories of this happening, I suspect it is not a real issue (you would expect the pacemaker manufacturers to do a good job of providing RF shielding for their control circuitry).

Pacemakers and microwave ovens involve a different hazard: heating of metal from microwaves. Placing a CD-ROM or a piece of aluminum foil in your microwave oven for a few seconds makes a nice display. Getting the wires of a pacemaker too close can let them heat up a bit which could be uncomfortable or worse. However, the ovens are pretty well shielded; hold some aluminum foil outside your microwave to prove this to yourself.
Again, the issue here is not EMF and cancer, but something different.

It is always better to understand the mechanism and relative risk of different perceived hazards. Lumping together unrelated things into some mysterious hazard to worry about is less helpful. The report of someone selling their hybrid car because of worries about the health effects of EMF is difficult to defend when the full range of scientifically reproducible studies is considered. The truth shall set you free.

 

To test EMF fields try this simple test:

1. Holding a standard 40W flourescent light tube, stand under high tension lines. If you do this at night you immediately notice the tube lights up (even though not connected to anything). High tension lines carry thousands of volts of electricity and produce a significant EMF.

2. Holding a standard 40W flourescent light tube, walk around your turned on Prius. The tube does not light up. This is a qualitative, not quantitative test, but should help to allay your concerns.

These concepts are not new, but were repeatedly demonstrated by Nikola Tesla (creater of radio, AC power and other electrical concepts).

As the other comments have noted, there are multiple EMF sources and fields in our everyday lives, homes, residences and schools.

Enjoy your Prius.

 

I think you'd want to put the flourescent light tube inside the car. Who cares if there are EMFs outside the car? Not that I much care one way or the other. And anyway, I don't have a flourescent light tube.