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e-4WD?

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by iplug, Sep 15, 2015.

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  1. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    It will be first Toyota with e-4WD, Lexus did it before ;)

    What drivetrain does Highlander hibrid have?
     
    #41 GasperG, Sep 21, 2015
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Same as in the Lexus RS, including the AWD.
     
    #42 Trollbait, Sep 21, 2015
  3. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    e4WD as an option is already confirmed in Germany and now Japan (hat tip ydooby
    from the 2016 Prius 20% improvement in MPG? thread):

    Google Translate

    The new Prius, from "E" of the most inexpensive and "S", "A", "A premium" is set four grade. Each grade except E, can be equipped with a four-wheel drive system for the first time in Prius. Vehicle mass 1310kg is E. S and A is 1360kg, S is 1430kg, A is 1440kg in the four-wheel-drive model. Although in the above A is equipped with a lithium ion battery, E and S's left NiMH batteries. However, four-wheel drive models use lithium-ion batteries.​
     
    #43 iplug, Sep 22, 2015
    BigFan, usbseawolf2000, Jeff N and 1 other person like this.
  4. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    rav4 goes on sale few months earlier
     
    #44 spwolf, Sep 22, 2015
  5. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Neither a hyper-miler or a lead foot here, but anxious to see if the e-4wd optioned vehicles will have a power mode to let one use max ICE output simultaneously with max front and rear e-motor output for boosted Prius acceleration power.
     
    #45 iplug, Sep 22, 2015
  6. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    rav4 mentions more power in power mode, so maybe here as well, especially if there is increased battery for real. Keep in mind that awd model is likely heavier by some 30-40kg so that will take away a bit of power.
     
    #46 spwolf, Sep 22, 2015
  7. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    IMO the bottleneck in power delivery is battery not el. motors.

    What is the upside of li-ion battery if it's the same size and weight as Ni-mh and delivers same fuel economy? Maybe it can deliver 10 more HP?
     
    #47 GasperG, Sep 23, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Previous eAWD from Toyota has been low speed(<35mph) only.

    It will have a larger capacity. It should deliver better fuel economy with more effective regen braking for those with more stops on their route. It should also do so by allowing more electric assist, and keeping the ICE in the efficient zone for longer periods.

    If the Li-ion is larger capacity than the NiMH, and doesn't increase fuel economy, Toyota did something wrong.
     
    #48 Trollbait, Sep 23, 2015
  9. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    The Li-ion is more efficient at charge and at delivering its charge, so it doesn't heat up as much. This allows use of more electric power.
    The Li-ion is probably used in the eAWD because they need the extra current it can deliver, and to at least partially compensate for the increased weight of the AWD components.

    The ability to use more electric power should not be underestimated! The current Prius electric motor is quite powerful, but you rarely get to use that power. It usually runs at about half power or below to keep battery temp. down.
     
    #49 David Beale, Sep 23, 2015
  10. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    We can probably glean some clues by looking at Toyota's European press release for the RAV-4 hybrid:

    "a first for Toyota vehicles in Europe, the RAV4 Hybrid AWD is equipped with a 50 kW high-voltage, high-speed rear electric motor which gives the vehicle all-wheel drive capability without the need for a central prop shaft.


    Operating independently from the hybrid system’s front electric motor and driving the rear wheels alone, E-Four smoothly switches the RAV4 to all-wheel drive status on slippery road surfaces and from stationary starts, maximising traction, stability and controllability under the most demanding driving conditions.


    Generating drive torque through the efficient use of power from the vehicle’s hybrid system E-Four system not only optimises all-wheel drive performance in a variety of dri-ving conditions, but also reduces energy loss, contributing to better fuel economy than that normally associated with AWD vehicles.


    The significant extra traction provided by the E-Four system also provides considerable recreational benefits, equipping the new RAV4 Hybrid AWD with a 1,650 kg towing capacity -one of the highest capacities yet achieved by a hybrid vehicle.    ​

    Not sure how to interpret all of the European performance data:

    upload_2015-9-23_9-54-48.png


    The RAV-4 also appears to only use NiMH. Indeed one can not simply assume all or most of this will translate over to the Prius.
     
    #50 iplug, Sep 23, 2015
  11. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    1650 kg is about 3,600 pounds.

    For context, the Chevrolet Tahoe hybrid had a rated towing capacity of 6,200 pounds.
     
    #51 Jeff N, Sep 23, 2015
  12. priusfan500

    priusfan500 Member

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    The leaked Japanese staff manual lists 4wd (E-Four), and provides full economy ratings of 35km/litre (82 miles per gallon US). Keep in mind they use the more generous Japanese Cycle for fuel economy ratings). It lists the 2WD models at 40 and 37km/litre (94 & 87 miles per gallon US). No word yet if E-Four will be coming to North America at launch.

    Screen Shot 2015-09-23 at 2.56.20 PM.png Screen Shot 2015-09-23 at 1.37.20 PM.png
     
    #52 priusfan500, Sep 23, 2015
  13. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    It makes sense as e4WD is offered only with the more compact Li-ion HV battery.
     
    #53 usbseawolf2000, Sep 23, 2015
  14. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Don't know if Toyota will rate the Prius for towing, would not guess so, but anything would be an unexpected pleasant surprise.

    Anyone see areas on the rear underside to bolt on a hitch?
     
    #54 iplug, Sep 23, 2015
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The Highlander/AWD RX is rated for 3500 pounds in the US.
    The 1650kg is the European tow rating. The different markets have different requirements when it comes to the stated tow rating. The SAE procedure for determining tow rating, which I think nearly all the manufacturers have agreed to follow, is stricter than whatever is used in Europe. Of course they are still free to put a lower or zero rating on a vehicle to help with the upsell to something with higher margins.

    Another note on market differences, European models have a rating for non braked trailers, and a higher one for a trailer with brakes. That 1650kg, is probably for a braked trailer. Which means getting more after market equipment installed in the car. I don't know if the max tow rating for US trucks is with or without trailer brakes. I'd guess with by the legalese of having 'proper equipment' in that section of the manual.
    In the US, it won't have a tow rating for the same reason nearly nobody has one on an actual car here. It is easy to get people to buy a SUV or truck to tow with.

    In Europe, it might get one. The Auris hybrid has one, but it is lower than the ICE models. If it does get it, the eAWD may have a higher rating.

    All the other Prii have a hitch receiver available, and they all might be no drill install. The use of hitch mount bike racks and cargo carriers mean one should be available for the gen4.
     
    #55 Trollbait, Sep 23, 2015
  16. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    I think in EU 750 kg is the limit for unbraked trailer regardless of the car.

    I think tow rating in hybrid is mainly determined by the manufacturer and if it will overheat certain drive components, not because it would fail some mandatory tests.
     
    #56 GasperG, Sep 24, 2015
  17. Kardahs

    Kardahs Junior Member

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    #57 Kardahs, Sep 24, 2015
  18. cmth

    cmth Active Member

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    As I said a while ago, AWD in a Prius even at Gen3 efficiency is going to be a game changer. What we have in the Gen4 seem to go even further. Now specifically for the EU crowd here, it might also be a good idea to wait and see what else is announced. The Toyota C-HR is going to be produced in EU and should look a bit more European in styling and refinement.

    All in all, looks like great things are coming our way. I just hope Toyota keeps its feet down and price it accordingly.

    In the UK however it will be a total mess as usual. Some petrol head at Toyota UK will decide we will all want the 17-inch version and they will price it double the US price.
     
    #58 cmth, Sep 24, 2015
  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Agree with that. The Camry hybrid in Australia, and likely the EU Auris, got a low tow rating mainly do to customer demand. Since only the AWD versions of the RX and NX get a tow rating in the US, I'm thinking Toyota is worried about overstressing something in the front drivetrain when starting from a stop.
     
    #59 Trollbait, Sep 24, 2015
  20. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

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    #60 DavidA, Sep 24, 2015
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