Dubious Polk study: "only 35% of hybrid vehicle owners choose to purchase a hybrid again..."

No, Toyota put their money at risk to stay in business and make even more money.

The early adopter environmentalists and energy efficiency junkies put their money at risk, in part, out of a sense of contributing to a greater good. I was not a G1 Prius owner, but when I see that car on the streets I feel like approaching the owner and saying "thanks."

 

No fair comparing a 2001 Prius to a current Focus. The 2001 Focus was rated only 25 mpg combined.

 

Whatchumean "we" Kimosabe?

If you would like to include depreciation, I don't think that will help you as like to like comparisons, Camry and Camry Hybrid, Civic and Civic Hybrid, etc. show the same percentage depreciation.

You are left with the hybrid premium and the fuel cost savings and that just breaks even over the average course of car ownership.

Many people (mistakenly) do their fuel savings calcs based on their old gas guzzler vs. their Prius when the true measure would be like to like comparison of same car regular and hybrid model.

It's kind of smoke screen issue for some hybrid owners. They want it to be "Just business, Sonny" vs. being a tree hugging, Dudley Doright.

 

There are reasons why non-purpose-built hybrid options don't perform and sell as well as the purpose-built hybrid Prius. Unfortunately certain critics latch on to the deficiencies of the former and insist, mistakenly, that the same applies equally to the later.

 

I'll break my promise to avoid this tangent, to offer up an arithmetic lesson

Even if depreciation rates are the same, so long as the rate is < 1, you recoup that part of the hybrid premium equal to premium * (1-depreciation rate)

Example:
Hybrid premium is $4k, and 7 year depreciation is 60%
$1600 of the premium is recouped at time of resale

 

Has anyone noted:

(*) This study was for 2011, the year that the Japanese Tsunami seriously limited Prius production; and

(*) This study was for 2011, so it does not overlap the latest gas price shock that started in mid-February 2012?

 

Toyota disagrees with your marketing assessment as we see with Camry, Highlander, Lexus where they offer both versions.

The point of choosing like to like for an analysis of the economics of hybrid fuel savings is because when comparing dissimilar items like a Prius and a Chevy Suburban it loses all meaning.

The analysis of cost savings has been done again and again and the numbers are reliable, repeatable and factual. It is a faith based thing with some Prius owners that they do it to "save money" but that is typically not the case, they do it for the better angels of their nature. I find singing Monty Pythons "He's a lumberjack and he's OK" works for me if people accuse me of being a tree hugging so and so. I can certainly understand those who use the "Just business, Sonny" shield.

 

Well, in our "extended" family (myself and my wife, and my parents), we have/had the following cars since 2000

2000 Dodge Stratus (traded in for a Toyota after we went through ALL Chrysler/Dodge dealers in Tucson, we even had one say that we needed to buy new engine mounts at 49K miles, and did not even bother to check if they were covered by the extended warranty)

2002 Prius (Died / had too many repairs to be worth the $ in Sept 2011)

2002 Camry (still running, purchased 2 weeks after the Prius, though it's a little long in the tooth now IMHO)

2005 Prius (now my parents daily, was mine until a few weeks ago)

2007 Prius Touring (My wife drives this mostly)

2012 Plug-In Base model (I am driving this, and love it).

None of the vehicles can be said were purchased for pure $ or Gas Mileage Savings reasons.

No one that buys a Camry or a Lexus, or a BMW tries to "Justify" the purchase. We buy Prii because we like them. In fact I go slightly out of my way to try and get a Prius when renting a car (usually Hertz), because I know how it drives, and like it.

-Harry

 

Why, yes

 

Toyota makes what people will buy and Toyota can profit. That does not have much to do with Prius depreciation rates being better than other hybrids.

 

I can guarantee that my next car will have to beat my Prius in FE, room and reliability! I seriously doubt that will be a non hybrid!

 

Of some car that is useless to me and that I do not own. And is not the topic of this website.

I prefer to compare my Prius to non hybrid cars that can hold the same cargo, since I bought my Prius because it fit me and my cargo.

http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...502-2010-prius-school-project.html#post979468

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.ne...1348787722119_1304125006_985752_4829746_n.jpg

 

I heard a rehashing of this article on NPR's 6:30 PM Marketplace yesterday. It was especially irritating because nowhere in the entire piece did the commentator, reporter or any of the supposed experts even mention the word 'Prius'....or Ford for that matter. They did give examples about the Civic issues and the Sonata as if these were representative of all 'hybrid vehicles'.

This slanted presentation caused me to post the following comment on NPR's site under said article:

 

In addition...this is a HUGE factor

(*) This study for 2011 occurs when the driving population is just barely exitting from the worst financial crisis of the last 70 yrs. Many buyers lost everything, jobs, cars, houses and families in some cases. A large segment of buyers simply cannot, will not or are not qualified any longer to purchase new vehicles. Purchasing a vehicle with a 'premium' is out of the question. Down-sizing is the new normal. Used car sales are booming and there is in fact a shortage of used cars in the market.

 

Personally, I bought my Prius to save gas and there was no 3-7 payback period--it was instant, as I lease it. I am leasing it at a base rate of $180/month. I could have gotten a smaller Corolla at the time (too small to use, especially functional trunk space) for $140/month or a Camry for the same lease amount. I didn't need to make a political or environmental statement; I looked for and found compelling reason in the simple math of it to validate the purchase.

BTW, even if there is a 3-7 payback period for people, what the heck's wrong with that? We're talking 10-30% return on investment, which is a very good return.

The reason I question the study is that insufficient information was released about its basis, and what little was released conflicted with my previously held (right or wrong) beliefs about Hybrid loyalty.

 

Can you please give numbers of miles on each vehicle, especially the 2002 ones?

 

The report said that Toyota hybrid owners' hybrid repurchase rate was 41%. It didn't, however, mention the Prius specifically.

The rest of your comment was valid. However, you missed several important points:

- Hybrid supply was constrained and prices inflated during 2011 and therefore many of the buyers would have been "forced" to choose an alternative. The quarterly figures show an underlying rate much nearer 40%.
- Ford has discontinued the Escape Hybrid. Buyers who want an efficient 4WD now only have the very expensive Highlander Hybrid. This is a significant chunk of previous sales.
- The report is only on traded vehicles so it ignores all buyers who sell privately, keep or hand down an older hybrid.
- There is no mention of the volume or age of the hybrids traded. Given that hybrid sales exploded in the mid 2000s this is extremely important.
- There is no mention of why they traded. Good hybrids do not cover some key segments such as minivans and hybrids have a price premium recovered by miles traveled. The issue may not be one of satisfaction but a change in circumstances.
- Also, PEV sales began in 2011. Was the Volt classed as a hybrid? Given that most of the LEAF and Volt drivers are switching from other hybrids unless PEVs are treated as hybrids or stated separately, it would be misleading.

 

Here's the full report from Polk. This does not even factor in the increase cost for gas price difference in 2011 and 2012. The sales report by toyota for selling over 28K Prius's for the month of March 2012 alone speaks a thousand words. A record breaking sales for the Prius in just a month.

Only 35 Percent of Hybrid Owners Buying Hybrids Again, says Polk

Higher fuel prices not yet impacting hybrid category’s loyalty rates

Monday, April 9, 2012
SOUTHFIELD, Mich. (April 9, 2012) -- While the selection of hybrid models in the U.S. has more than doubled since 2007, only 35 percent of hybrid vehicle owners choose to purchase a hybrid again when returning to market in 2011, according to recent analysis by Polk (See Table A). If repurchase behavior among the high volume audience of Toyota Prius owners isn’t factored in, hybrid loyalty drops to under 25 percent.
However, hybrid owners appear to maintain brand loyalty when returning to the new car market. For example, in 2011, 60 percent of Toyota hybrid owners returned to the market to purchase another Toyota, according to Polk, while 41 percent of them purchased another hybrid from any brand. In the case of Honda hybrid owners, more than 52 percent of them stayed with the Honda brand, while just under 20 percent of this same owner group bought another hybrid vehicle from any brand.
"Having a hybrid in the product lineup can certainly give a brand a competitive edge when it comes to attracting new customers," noted Brad Smith, director of Polk's Loyalty Management Practice. "The repurchase rates of hybrid vehicles are an indication that consumers are continuing to seek alternative solutions to high fuel prices."
Online cross-shopping data from Edmunds.com indicates that consumers are doing their due diligence to compare hybrids with similar gasoline-powered vehicles. As an example, the Honda Civic is the second most cross-shopped vehicle among both Toyota Prius and Honda Insight shoppers.
Hybrid vehicles represent just 2.4 percent of the overall new vehicle market in the U.S., according to Polk, down from a high of 2.9 percent in 2008.
"The lineup of alternate drive vehicles and their premium price points just aren't appealing enough to consumers to give the segment the momentum it once anticipated, especially given the growing strength of fuel economy among compact and midsize competitors," according to Lacey Plache, Edmunds.com chief economist. "For EVs and PHEVs in particular, certain obstacles -- including consumer unease with unfamiliar technology and the lack of an adequate recharging infrastructure -- will need to be overcome before sales increase."
Polk's research also indicates that volatility in fuel prices between 2008 and 2011, which ranged from just under $2.00/gallon to nearly $4.00/gallon, had little impact on hybrid segment loyalty. As fuel prices continue to rise, Polk will be working closely with its customers to continue to analyze the impact.
Surprisingly, Polk also found that consumers in traditional eco-friendly markets in the U.S. (e.g. Los Angeles, San Diego, Portland, Ore. and Seattle) are no more loyal to hybrid vehicles than the nation at large. A list of the top 15 markets by hybrid loyalty is included in Table B.

 

No, Toyota took risks in putting each and every vehicle innovation on the road. It's called capitalism, not environmentalism.

 

Thank you Harry.

It is more than ok to buy a Prius hybrid because you like it and can afford it. That's what I did.

Going back to the typical conventional car where you point keyfob to unlock, fumble key into ignition, count to 20 while oil circulates, clunk the mechanical shifter into reverse and get annoyed over the constant shift 1st,2nd,3rd,4th,5th and back down again (in city) is not my cup of tea.

Unfortunately some auto companies, oil companies, media and individuals are stirring up controversy by continually pointing to the numbers game with hybrids while lumping all the unsuccessful hybrid models together with Toyota and Lexus hybrids.