Drove the 2010 Honda Insight Today

I bought a 2010 Insight on Mar, 25, one day after they were delivered to the dealership. As an owner of a 2000 Insight, I'm familiar with hybrids, know something about how to achieve high mileage without being too obnoxious to other drivers, and have enjoyed answering numerous questions about my 2000 model. I began asking dealers to contact me when the new Insights arrived. A local dealer was the first so he got my business.

I doubt that my new Insight will be quite as economical as my 2000 Insight, but I may be pleasantly surprised. The overall mileage for my 2000 at 113k miles is 61.5 MPG. Thus far, the overall mileage for my 2010 after 502 miles is only 51.7, however, that includes practically NO driving on on level ground, while the 2000 has been used often on long trips on level highways. I have seen mileage as high as 85 MPG over short distances for the 2010, however, that's not representative of daily mileage. Considering that the listed mileage is 41/43, I think my mileage thus far is pretty decent.

Much has been made of the fact that the Prius can operate on electric power from a stop. The first time I drove a Prius I was, and still am, impressed by that. Many think that the new Insight lacks the ability to operate in full electric mode. Wrong! Not only can it do so, it does so at speeds between 65 and 15 MPH. On one of the few flat road surfaces available nearby I was able to operate in full electric mode for well over a mile, having to exit electric mode in order to slow for a sharp curve where several people, including myself have wrecked, been seriously injured, or died. Over that distance I saw a rise in mileage of .6 MPG. I even visited the Honda dealer on Friday to demonstrate my technique for entering electric mode. Yeah, I know more about that than he does.

I've heard many state that the new Insight and the new Prius look very similar. Hmmm, how about that? I always thought that the 2nd US Prius looked like a 2000 Insight on steroids. It really doesn't matter though. In order to achieve outstanding mileage there are certain shapes which lend themselves aerodynamically to reducing drag and thus enhancing one's chances of getting good mileage.

Not having much experience with Prii, and loads of experience with my new Insight, it's hard for me to compare the features of each, to praise commend or condemn one over the other. I'm impressed with the more refined nature of the new Insight compared with the original. Honda engineers have worked on many little things which one may not notice with only a test drive. Practically every day I discover new aspects of the car that I never noticed before.

Will it out-accelerate a 2010 Prius? Probably not, but that's not why I bought a hybrid. If I'd have valued that in a hybrid I'd have bought a hybrid Accord when they were available. Very nice, very quick, very fast, still quite economical. Does it have the space that a 2010 Prius has? Nope, however, it has enough space for many of us. I'm 5'11" and I have no trouble with leg room in the driver's seat. A friend of mine, who is taller than I, recently rode in the back seat for 60 miles and said he was comfortable. As it's very seldom I have anyone in the back seats, and even then only for short distances, rear seats are nice to have, but if my friends need more legroom, headroom, etc., perhaps we can take their gas sucking SUV. ;-) One great advantage that the new Insight has is that of price. Even IF the Insight has a lower average mileage than the Prius it'll take a loooong time to make up the difference in price in gas saved over the long haul.

...and all the arguments about which of the two companies has the better hybrid system are actually meaningless. Who cares? The important part is that hybrid drivers are saving gas/ money/ the environment. Every time I see a hybrid, Toyota, Honda, Ford, whatever, I'm glad.

 

It is physically impossible for the Insight or any IMA vehicle to turn the electric motor without turning the engine crankshaft. It obviously doesn't have to supply fuel and spark to the cylinders, though, so it doesn't make much noise. Some energy is lost in pumping air. The Civic Hybrid can 'disable' - keep all valves closed - all four cylinders of its engine. That causes the air trapped in the cylinder to be compressed, but much of the energy is returned elastically. Still, there's some loss.

I can't recall whether the new Insight has a reduced number or no ability at all, but this is an area in which Honda saved money. (The old Insight could not do this.)

Don't expect the instrumentation to indicate this. The Prius will indicate no engine use above 42mph - no pink arrows - but the crankshaft is actually spinning, again with no fuel injected. The power-split device (planetary gearset) allows MG2 to rotate independently of the engine crankshaft, although if the engine is stopped, MG1 has to turn.

 

Hi Mike;

You are quite correct in that the crankshaft will always turn when the electric motor is providing 100% electric propulsion. From a purist perspective it can be seen as a waste despite the (often ignored) extra lower friction engineering built into it.
But with that said, it still does not invalidate what elsabio1946 and others have said many times before that the Gen4 IMA and newer can run/propel the vehicle on electric only. This remains absolutely correct.

Sure it is not the sweet full EV mode we get on the Prius when its fully warmed up and on good SoC, but it is still there for the taking over a pretty wide range of scenarios.

The instrumentation does show when running in electric only, except it is not as obvious, pretty and explicit to a newbie as what the Gen 2 Prius displays on its MFD.

Still, while I agree with some of what elsabio1946's said there are some things I do not. Frankly, his predominantly Honda experience and affinity is comparable to the things we hear from those of us who own a Prius and don't have much seat time in a late gen Honda Hybrid.
It is all quite normal and expected, really.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

The new 2010 Insight is only offered in CVT so you should compare it with the last gen CVT Insight. CVT was only offered starting in 2001 model year. When you convert it to 2008 EPA standard, 2001 CVT Insight got 47 MPG.

Shocking! 2010 Prius (eCVT) gets higher MPG than the 2001 Insight (CVT).

- 50 MPG vs. 47 MPG (combined)
- 5 passengers mid-size vs. 2 passengers sub-compact
- 3,050 lbs vs. 1,967 lbs curb weight
- 9.8 sec vs. 11.2 sec (0-60mph)
- 215mm (or 195mm) vs. 165mm wide tires
- 4 doors vs. 2 doors

I am not saying bigger is better but just pointing out major superiority in size, efficiency, power and refinement with a minor price difference (~$22k vs ~$20k).

 

In reference to comments by MSantos, "The instrumentation does show when running in electric only, except it is not as obvious, pretty and explicit to a newbie as what the Gen 2 Prius displays on its MFD.", I guess that "obvious, pretty, and explicit" are in the eye of the beholder. Having never experienced any indication that any Insight I had ever driven was in full electric mode, and we can quibble about what full electric mode means, waste movement of the crankshaft or not, I find the instrumentation obvious, pretty, and explicit...and directly in front of me. As MSantos correctly pointed out, as did I when I posted, my hybrid experience has been predominantly in Hondas. That makes my observations no less valid, any more than your comments are less valid on a Honda hybrid forum merely because your experiences are predominately in a Toyota hybrid... the 2nd hybrid introduced in the US after the Insight.

usbseawolf2000 states "The new 2010 Insight is only offered in CVT so you should compare it with the last gen CVT Insight. CVT was only offered starting in 2001 model year. When you convert it to 2008 EPA standard, 2001 CVT Insight got 47 MPG." I am comparing the 2010 Insight with a 2000 Insight because (1) those are the two Insights that I own, (2) the 47 MPG figure is an EPA figure, which practically everyone knows is low for hybrids ( AKA BS), and (3) if usbseawolf2000 declares that I should compare the 2010 Insight with the 2001 CVT Insight, I say let's compare the 2010 Insight with the 2010 Prius. There the gap narrows considerably. Also, I must point out that the term "superior" in reference to either vehicle depends on the needs, desires, preferences, uses, etc. of the buyer. Just as the Insight is not for everyone, the Prius is not either. In some cases, Heaven forbid, neither hybrid appeals to a prospective buyer.

I'm not trying to prove superiority of one hybrid over another, Toyota or Honda. That, to me, is pointless. They're both great vehicles, they both appeal to people who are willing to take a chance, people who in earlier times would have been crossing the Great Plains in covered wagons. Getting into a pointless discussion of whether one or the other is superior is a waste of time. I already know which one is and so do you. (Yeah, that's meant to be humorous...and ambiguous)

I truly do look forward to reading some of your experiences driving the new Prius. I find that observations by real people rather than professional testers are more useful and interesting.

 

Exactly, I find it more useful too. I plan to test drive the Insight soon. Why don't you test drive the new Prius when it become available and let us know if it is worth the price difference (if any).

 

That sounds like a great idea. Of course, as we all know, the Prius has been so successful that there may be none available to drive since they'll probably all be spoken for. This go round Honda has made available at dealers an Insight which has been designated "DEMO, Do not sell" on the window sticker, which I assume will be available for use by prospective buyers. Perhaps Toyota will do the same...

I must hand it to Toyota: they have been much more successful/ aggressive in marketing the Prius than Honda has been in marketing the various Honda hybrids. And the marketplace has decided to buy the Prius as a result. I'm not saying that it's all a result of marketing, but the first step in selling a product is getting the public to know the product through advertising, then having them available for a test drive, and then having people who know the product sell it. Often a buyer will then become a repeat buyer for the same brand or model.

 

Hello everyone, this is my first post.

My name is Marc and I am from Miami.
I own a black 2004 Prius and totally love it. I've had it for 5 years and have not had any problems what so ever. I do plan to get the 2010 model in blue.

I had no idea about this chat room until today, and I am glad I found it. For the last 5 years I have met and talked to many Prius haters, so it feels good to finally be with like minded people.

Cheers.

 

Here is a point of information that may be of use or only of interest: In some states (Illinois is one), a car dealer must offer for sale any car on the dealer's lot that is not either under contract or titled to another party. We had a local dealer who thought he could get around this by taking title to a new Prius and using it as a demo only. He was pressed by a potential purchaser who knew the law. The potential purchaser also knew the dealer had a policy of not selling above MSRP, so he really thought he could press this to his advantage and get the demo instead of waiting many, many months for a new Prius (this was a few years back). The dealer then said that the car was for sale, but he offered it at about $3,000 above MSRP. When the potential buyer challenged the dealer, noting the dealer's policy, the dealer pointed out that the car already had been titled and, by law, could not be sold as new. It was being offered at MSRP + $3,000 as a used car. The dealer thought this would discourage the buyer and allow the dealer to continue using the car as a demo.

Believe it or not, the guy paid the dealer's asking price! No more demo only cars at the dealership!!

 

Hi Marc,

Welcome! I, too, found this chat group just a few days ago. Despite the fact that I drive a Honda Insight I feel I've been accepted and feel that useful info has been exchanged. I've run into people who told me that my 2000 Insight was the ugliest car they'd ever seen. Yeah, it's different, odd, unusual, etc., but ugly? Nah.

I've enjoyed being a part of the group, sharing what I know about the new 2010 Insight, and learning from those who own Prii. I'm excited about new developments in the world of hybrids and electric vehicles; I even own two electric lawnmowers and an electric garden cart. If I were a younger man I'd also have solar panels installed on the roof of my home.

 

Why two? I find the electric lawnmowers quieter (still hear the fan cutting) but I had to manage the cable. Portable mower would be great.

How is your Insight MPG doing? Have you try the A/C (hot, cold, or as a dehumidizer) to see how much it affects the mileage?

I like to welcome Marc too. How many miles do you have on your 04? If you have over 100k miles, you may want to post your experience in the 100k miles club thread.

 

Yes, it's different! Ugly? Nothing so innovative could be ugly. Ugly is the AMC Matador. That car had two rear ends, so I never could tell whether I was looking at a car driving away from me or bearing down on me in reverse.

I have but one electric lawnmower -- but I have two batteries for it. Didn't want to deal with the cables. I really like the "unplugged" variety. By managing the two batteries, I've been able to make it run for several years now.

 

I probably should have stated that I have have two "battery powered" mowers, one a Neuton which I bought, the other a Black and Decker which I inherited from my mother-in-law. The former is three years old and operating well. The latter is about 7-8 years old and still operating well. Fortunately I have a very small yard which can be trimmed, mowed, and machinery stored again in 15 minutes. The trimming is done using my battery powered trimmer/edger.

The 2000 Insight has averaged 61.5 MPG over 115k miles, the 2010 has averaged 52 over about 620 miles. The A/C does cut the mileage some, however, it seems to be only about 1 MPG. The new Insight has never been driven on consistently level terrain which I suspect would enable me to get much better than I get now. I'm interested in finding out just how much better myself.

 

One of the old jokes about Studebakers (really showing my age now...) , was that they looked very similar from front or rear. Speaking of Studebakers I read a mention several days ago about a Hill Hold feature in the new Prius which the writer credited to Subaru I believe. Nope, it was Studebaker, back in 1936, that originated the Hill Holder feature which allowed the driver to stop on a hill and then remove his/her foot from the brake without drifting backwards. I'm not sure exactly how the Prius version works, but it's probably something similar.

I really like my "unplugged" mowers also. The battery powered garden cart I have, produced by Neuton, is also a great tool. Carries up to 200 lbs. up a slope, much easier and faster than carrying it myself.

 

I had a good sit in the 2010 Insight this evening and I would not say it is small and cramped inside.

The Insight does favor front seat room with seat all the way down and back. That's a very good thing for tall drivers. Lumbar support was very good. Bit of console to rest right leg on. No rearview mirror obstruction of traffic when adjusted properly, unlike 2009 Prius. Sporty Insight dash, good telescopic steering wheel.

Back seat room and headroom is somewhat less than the Pri. The car looks wee bit narrower than the Pri at the rear end.

Nice looking car the Insight is. Looks fresher, sportier than the 09 Pri, but to be expected since a brand new model.

EX with Navigation stickered in the $23k range.

I think Toyota has some serious competition with the Insight on hand. But, this is from looking alone. Daily driving is another story.

 

Just test drove an Insight in San Rafael, CA.

I was impressed. Quiet. Really good visibility. Good power even going up a steep hill. Good handling. Had a little trouble adjusting seat to be comfortable. It gets around 40-42 mpg I think if you drive it non-aggressively. Honda offers 3.9% financing. The sales guy said that the only maintenance would be oil changes every 8,000 miles for the 1st 100,000 miles--that's incredible! Is it true? How does this compare to Prius?

Pricing: Selling at MSRP. So about $20k for LX, plus $995 for cargo cover, and floor mats, etc. (Does Toyota do this also?), plus tax.

EX w/ Navi w/floor mats, etc.: $24,765 plus taxes.

Sales guys said that the Toyota guys up the road would be adding $2-3,000 on top of MSRP for Gen 3 Prius. Is that likely?

 

Yep. But, it gets better.

First of all: Never trust the sales people on this issue and run away from dealers who give you a fixed oil change interval.

Instead, follow the built-in Maintenance Minder Display (MMD). If you do so, you may find yourself doing oil changes after 10K or 12K miles. Again, unlike with most other cars, you do not replace the oil at fixed mileage intervals. You change it when the car tells you to change it. If we drive the car well (ie: and not like lead foot mad hares) the oil will last the longest, allowing you not only to save money on fuel but also save on oil changes (which is better for the environment anyway).

Cheers;

MSantos

 

You know, I was ecstatic when I noticed the 2010 Prius required 0W20 oil and then I thought to myself:
"Finally! since this oil is far more expensive and rarer than the ordinary oil weights, Toyota will include a MMD or at least extend the oil change intervals to match the regular oil change in the Euro models."

Of course, I have not followed up on this one and so I am still not sure about it. Have you got any ideas as to where we stand on this for the Gen III Prius?

Now back to the Insight stuff:
The biggest issue with the MMD, 0W20 oil and Honda still remains "some" of the dealers. Some dealers do not have the 0W20 and are allowed to discretely pour in 5W20 oil (allowed only as a contingency) which impacts the mileage by at least 10-15MPG. And then you have all these Honda IMA owners complaining about the jaw dropping mileage loss.

I just hope Toyota does it better than Honda by NOT allowing their dealers to do the same substitution with the 2010 Prius.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

That's what I like about Hondas. I put a lot of miles on the highway and sticking with 5k miles oil change does not make sense. The previous Celica I owned, the maintenance schedule has 5k or 7.5k depending on the driving condition. I hope the 2010 Prius has something like that or just make oil life meter like Honda and GM cars.