Driving in snow: Prius is really good.

Did you have a bad day or something? Why were you so mad and taking out on me?

My point is still valid if you have to replace one tire. The new tire has to be shaved to match the other three. That's how it works and I don't have to own one to point out the extra maintenance consideration for AWD. The issue multiplies when you have two set of tires (summer and snow).

 

I am mostly going to stay out of this discussion, but in this case Wiz is correct. On gravel, you can do better with wheel spin, and you can stop faster with locked wheels. This is because gravel piles up and locks together.

Note that this is not the case with dirt, but Wiz specifically stated gravel.

I have run into trouble with climbing gravel roads on our numerous rock climbing trips. When I drove a rented Ford Focus without TC, I could slip and spin my way up. It wasn't pretty, but it worked. With my Gen II Prius, it was game over. Better tires helped, but it is still an issue.

Traction control on the Gen II works well for me in our snowy winters, so I am in no sense a TC basher. Generally I get called out for defending the TC system, but it's important to realize that not all road conditions respond to TC in the same way.

Tom

 

In a perfect world and car yes, but the Prius system doesn't work the same way as the ones on the F1 cars. If it detects too much spin, it cuts engine power and would barely give you enough acceleration to move. It isn't a bad system by any means, but it needs to have an off switch in the case that you do need it (climbing hills, getting out of snow banks etc).

Your second paragraph is completely wrong as I was 8 sec faster in my run with the traction control off vs on.........

 

Ahhhhh, THANK YOU! I hate to bash TC too, because, as I've stated in other threads, I've had only 2 problems in the equivalent of 6 years of ownership. And for a FWD car, the Prius is damn good in snow overall. I just hate it when TC supporters start blaming the driver, or the year of the car, or the size of my shoe. Or some version of the "it's never happened to me, therefore it must not be a problem" logic.

The important point that the "blind" supporters of the Prius' TC seem to miss is the point made in your final sentence: "not all road conditions respond to the TC in the same way." A point I've been trying to illustrate, but you summed it up nicely.

Zhe Wiz

 

Well now, that's a very different point. First you were discussing tire rotation now you're discussing tire replacement, ie a flat, non-repairable tire. Those two points are VERY different. Why? The former is a normal event for any car, the second occurs almost solely due to a punctured sidewall. Since flat tires in general are very rare, and punctured sidewalls even more rare, it's hardly a "normal" event. I've had two occasions in the last 3 years where I could not ascend a hill due to Prius TC. I've had zero flat tires, or premature tire replacement in that amount of time. Flats don't happen often. And I'd think I'm more likely to have one than most due to the amount of time I spend off-road.

And having two sets of tires (summer and snow) has no affect whatsoever on the likelihood of a flat. There is not "multiplicative" affect when you have two sets of tires. The parts of your posts which anger me are these exaggerated arguments you are making against AWD. The parts which are no more true than what I said sarcastically about the Prius' battery.

The biggest negative to AWD (IMHO!) is the crappy gas mileage. But comparing the car I leased to the Prius I would have leased (yes, I absolutely considered getting another, it was my second choice in the end!), I "break even" when gas costs $3.95 a gallon. At prices less than that the overall cost is lower for the Subaru. Do I hate burning extra fuel? Yes. Am I giving up some features? Yes! I don't have keyless entry, backup camera or automatic climate control for example. However, for THE WAY I DRIVE and the places I need/want to go, the Subaru is a better option. And there's no arguing which is better in adverse conditions.

Back to the point, I just don't want people to discount the potential problem TC exhibits. If you don't go off road a lot, and you don't live in a hilly area, don't drive on steep gravel roads, or if you DO live in a hilly area, but don't have to drive if the weather is REALLY bad, then the Prius is fine. (I think I just described 99% of the population?) If I matched that description, I'd have leased another one. But please (and this is NOT directed solely at you, usbseawolf2000) don't pretend the problems with TC don't exist.

All of this is in regard to the second gen Prius. From what I can tell the 3rd gen is better, I just haven't driven one outside of the brief test drive, so I can't say how it reacts when conditions get nasty, but from reports of problems (far less than for the second gen) and videos I've seen, it sure looks a lot better. I was afraid to buy a new one based only on one year's worth of data. We'll see how things look when my Subaru lease ends in 2014.

Zhe Wiz

 

I've owned several cars or trucks with 4WD and AWD. Everything else being equal, I would take 4WD or AWD every time over 2WD, whether front or rear. Unfortunately everything else is never equal. The extra drive components add cost, weight, friction, and complexity.

I would be willing to sacrifice a little mileage for a hybrid Subaru, if there were such a thing, but as it now stands you have to sacrifice a LOT more than a little mileage. When we bought our Prius, it was shocking to see the difference in mileage as compared to the Subarus. Given the mileage penalty, we couldn't bring ourselves to even consider a Subaru this time around. Maybe things will improve in the future.

Tom

 

Subaru Impreza hybrid is supposed to come out in 2012 using HSD. We'll see.

 

Recent reports indicate Subaru has already decided not to use Toyota's HSD system in its future hybrid which is not surprising given the traction problems the HSD is having.

 

I had very good driving experience this winter driving in the snow. Now granted, I would have much preferred no snow.... but with all the snow we had it was a pleasent supprise. I was also concerned about the low clearance, but that did not materialize this year at least. And we had a couple of bad snow storms this last winter....

 

Our car is not GOOD in snow. It MUST have great snow tires put on for average winter dirving. In 6" of snow it stops due to ground clearance. You can not rock it back and forth once you are in a jam, due to governor that protects the electric motor. If you did spin the wheels you would fry the electric motor. I'm in market for Studed Nokian Hakaplitia's, who has them for our car?

 

I've been a long time proponent of using ECO on slippery roads, especially stop lights/signs. Very smooth, no slipping. For the past two days I've been using my 94 y.o. mother's 99 Taurus with the small V6 ( I think 145 HP overhead valve). Have to do some towing this weekend and I had a hitch put on it last year. That thing is absolutely awful in snow, especially from a stop. As gently as I can I try to accelerate and get wheelspin immediately. Maybe I'm just spoiled by my Prius and the Subaru I had before it.
In case you're wondering, no she does not drive it. I have it titled and insured my brother and I each have a key for when we need it. Still under 10 K on the odometer.

 

What you are looking at here is the difference between a Gen II and a Gen III. It has nothing to do with the driving styles and evrything to do with the way the Gen III was reprogrammed to handle snow and ice. It is exactly the reason why I could not and would not buy a Gen II.

 

All correct as amended :_> Prius is not a snowplow. If you must drive in deep snow use a 4WD whatever, not a Prius.

 

I snowcross the Prius in the snow, the traction control is a piece of poop.

 

Thank you! Great post. I can remember B mode for uphill to avoid Traction Control. What's the easiest other steps to remember for winter 'mode changes'? (I have a 2004, Gen 2, no ECO/Power modes)

 

B Mode turns it off, doesn't it?

 

No.

 

Ok, I thought I'd read that it did, but I agree it doesn't make any sense - and I can't find that again.

Here's what I found for disabling Traction Control temporarily. Worth printing out the steps and sticking them in the glove-box for a rainy day, or at least a 'snowy day'.


To disable traction control on the Prius:

Turn the car to ignition by pressing START twice without pressing the brake.

Floor the gas pedal two times (two full top to bottom pressings)

Make sure the parking brake is on, and while pressing the brake pedal put the car into NEUTRAL

Again press the gas pedal two times

Push PARK and press the gas pedal two more times

Now put your foot on the BRAKE and press START one time while holding the brake down.

 

I’d be very reluctant to disable traction control, unless there’s a button on the dash for that purpose. Gen 4 has a button, if I’m not mistaken.

with earlier gens disabling traction control is intended for maintenance procedures, and there’s a strong caution against driving thus.

 

My only snow experience traumatized my family. We went from the central coast of California to Donner summit, usually a 4 hour drive.
Left around noon.
Mostly worn tires, maybe 6-7 mm tread left. Not Dangerous, but worn.
heavy snow flurries.
Chain controls slowing things down to a crawl.
8-12 inches of snow on the ground, so the Prius was "plowing" the snow.
My exit had a jackknifed truck, so I had to go an exit past, which was unplowed. Tried keeping my speed up while I got back on the freeway going the other direction.
Followed a truck's track until they turned into their driveway.
Lost momentum because of the built-up snow going up a hill, stopped. Had to rock the car for a few minutes to get a grip.
Got in around 2am.
Gravel driveway was muddy.
Forgot to leave the emergency brake off.
The next morning one wheel froze, the other one spun a ditch into the driveway, Prius needed to be hauled out by a snowplow.

Next time I'll leave earlier, have brand-new all-season tires and remember to LEAVE THE BRAKE OFF. The driveway has been nicely re-graveled since. We now have a Mazda CX-9 AWD SUV for cabin trips, so I think the point is moot now.