Downing Street memo

I'll just stick to the tech side of the posts knock yourselves out guys.

 

eh eh funny

 

I'm afraid I can't let some of your misgivings slide either IALTMANN...what can you tell me about Chalabi? Do you know who he is? If not, let me refresh your memory...he's the defector informant who came to the US to tell secrets of Iraq's so called WMD, didn't pan out, there wasn't any truth to any verifiable fact he gave us. We paid him $1million for nothing. Serin Gas? Nope, not there either...the stuff they made in 1990 and 1991 had a useful shelf life of about 2 months. You certainly wouldn't want to put it in your coffee now, but it's not going to kill anyone as a biological weapon, that's for sure. Hussein is an evil man, I won't argue that with any Republican or American. What he is not is a maniac or a fool. He's a dictator, but a dictator that was not in alliance with Al Queda. Al Queda was actually his enemy...they professed him to be the enemy of Islam...hell, even BinLaden doesn't like him.

"We won't be proven wrong" That's what Bush said in one of his speeches alongside Tony Blair...well, that's exactly what has happened. Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rummy, they've all been proved wrong. "Four more years of Bush and dead terrorists"? That's absured to the point of being assinine. That's the typical gung ho American way of saying...I've got no intelligent discourse, so I'll just shake my fist at the sky and cry "War and Death", and "I love GW, he's a great man!"....please, stop insulting the collective intelligence of the American people.

You stick with the technical, that's fine, but don't pretend to back up facts that you obviously have no idea about. You're like a race horse with Bush Blinders on your eyes....sad, but hey, it's your right as an American, and it's your right as a Republican. I don't have to agree with you, and that's what being an American is about too. Of course you don't like what the Downing Street Memo says, it tells the truth, the CIA is not on Bush's side about the war, the State of the Union address in January 2003 was a tissue of lies to finance Bush's war effort, and get the American people scared enough to back his plan in the polls. "I don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud"....shame on us for believing that monstrous load of horse manure....Bush is the man, if anyone, that would make me ashamed to be an American....

Just my .02 though, you respond how you will.

Dave.

 

Here's my reply...JUDGE YOUR MAN or woman when (if) they become president with the same sharpness and judgement you have just expoused here. Face it you just want your side running things period..I say let the voter vote and they will, I'll accept that.

enough bye

 

I agree with IALTMANN: Prius04, Hybrid Dave, Fredatgolf, goodbye...

 

To Isra, Fred, Dave and Galaxee and others,

Did you know that we were on teams? All this time I thought I wanted what I wanted for America because I loved America. Now it turns out it's simply because I want my team to win.

Who would have thought that?

 

I am staying out of politics, I will only copy stuff from you guys that I find .....what should I say....disappointing..

Thanks for the support if you support, and if not fine too, I'll just cut and paste when I see something.

 

Oh PS Prius4., I was talking about the country not this chat area

 

Hi pot, this is kettle, umm, you're black.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IALTMANN\";p=\"103559)</div>

Ya, we should all just support and blindly follow our president. You know like the GOP supported Clinton. You claim the Downing street memo is fake/debunked, but the GOP spent 40 million taxpayer dollars to find out there was no wrondoing in Whitewater, why not a special prosecutor to investigate the Downing street memo?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tleonhar\";p=\"103834)</div>

Ya, we should all just support and blindly follow our president. You know like the GOP supported Clinton. You claim the Downing street memo is fake/debunked, but the GOP spent 40 million taxpayer dollars to find out there was no wrondoing in Whitewater, why not a special prosecutor to investigate the Downing street memo?
[/b][/quote]


I like the way this man thinks!....hey, IALTMANN, here's a good way to put it all to rest:

Give us 20 reasons, in no particular order, why you think GWB has been a good President over the 2 terms....but not only that, substantiate those facts with hard evidence and results (meaning, you can't just say "he's cool because he's a Texan or a Republican)....those "facts" should solve a lot of debate on this thread. You game?

Dave.

If he's as great a man and President as you support him, then that shouldn't be difficult right?

 

Dave,

GW helped to accelerate NK getting the "bomb". NK leaders probably think this is a good thing.

He's contributing to Europe being more united than they have ever been. This is good for Europe.

China now owns the bulk of our deficit. This is good for China as it gives them leverage, like in their desire to buy Unocal.

He has phenomenally increased recruiting for the terrorists. This is good for the terrorists.

He has provided the terrorists with on the job training in Iraq. This is better training than they ever got in the mountains of Afghanistan. This has helped the terrorists.

By putting the war on the terrorists, those terrorists that actually had something to do with 9/11, on hold in Afghanistan, the heroin trade has greatly expanded there. This has helped drug addicts and inner city crime rates will probably go up. This should help keep cops & prison guards fully employed.

Under the leadership of Bolton, nuclear proliferation in the world has greatly expanded. This is also good for the terrorists. Since Bolton has been out of that job and in limbo over the UN job, there has been a slowdown in nuclear proliferation in the world. I guess you could say this was good for Americans.

He has given massive tax cuts to the rich. This has helped the rich. Unfortunately, much of that money then went into outsourcing jobs. Again this was good for those other countries, and for the rich.

By weakening clean air and clean water standards, he has improved profits for some corporations. This is good for rich people, and will likely end up improving job opportunities for doctors, as pollution goes up. And undertakers.

OK, there's about 10 good things Bush has done.

Dave, is this what you meant?


Oh and he united the Democrats. Something that has never happened before in history. But as IA will probably tell you, Democrats hate America, so this too is not a good thing for America.

 

but the GOP spent 40 million taxpayer dollars to find out there was no wrondoing in Whitewater, why not a special prosecutor to investigate the Downing street memo

>>>>because it all Bullsh_t., no facts or sound basis, like the CBS crap and Dan Rather, that's


"He's contributing to Europe being more united than they have ever been. This is good for Europe. "

>>>That's why the French people just now as well as the Netherlands have voted down the EU constitution ?? that don't make sense to me what was said about "Unity"


"Give us 20 reasons, in no particular order, why you think GWB has been a good President over the 2 terms....but not only that, substantiate those facts with hard evidence and results (meaning, you can't just say "he's cool because he's a Texan or a Republican)....those "facts" should solve a lot of debate on this thread. You game?
why.

1) He is honest > when asked if he used cocaine or dope, he responded >> I was not an angel in college.. Clinton said I smoked it but did not inhale.

that's #1

2) He has stopped Terrorists from attacking THIS COUNTRY ON U.S. SOIL. >> Any 9-11's lately??
He's bringing their troubles to them.
that's #2

3) He has lowered tax rates to ALL
>>Paying less, and I am not filthy rich.

that's #3

4) GW is a decent and honorable man.. (you would not know about that one) He made a promise to a wounded vet who had lost a leg that he would run again, and that someday he would come and run with him. GW without fanfare and regards to polls and political gains went to Reed and did just that one day and got the soldier out of bed and said "you ready, lets go man". Why do you think armed forces hold this CIC is such HIGH regards ?

>> that's answer #4

5) When Bush Senior in the state of Maine, long ago was called by GW., he said dad, I got stopped and I thing I got a DWI or even it may be a DUI. Bush Senior said to him, you flubbed it you fix it , I am not helping you. GW went and pleaded GUILTY and paid the fine. Now that is FACT..argue all you want.

..that's 5

6) GW has religious conviction., I don't regard that as a detriment, he sometimes finds that he prays..OH you all don't like that. Clinton consulted and received RELIGIOUS GUIDANCE from the most REV Jesse Jackson, in his time of "stress". Which religious application would you deem more appropriate.

..>>personally that is my #6

(Prius4 you crack me up...)Oh that is not divisive what you say...just plain fact..everybody knows that....your post should be posted on worldwide especially in the Middle East where our helpless American robots are slottering innocent people)

OK prius4.,next post I am going to give my 10 answers right from your ten.. let me paste them to MS word and take care of business there then I'll try and paste them to here.... You all a lot of fun, Soros needs to hire you guys, you got that shit down man..HAPPY 4th


I'll get around and get you some more, these are my top ones, why I never even considered the other candidate Kerry offering on your side. I even respected Clinton more then him. You see I have some well not first hand, but knowledge about Kerry's POST ANTI-WAR ACTIVITIES as a commisioned USNR officer in the Navy. Could also offer some inside stuff on his tours, but I as a VET will just accept he was there., that the least I'll do for anyone who went there period.

 

RESPONSES TOP 20 REASONS WHY I PREFER BUSH

10 MORE REASONS COURTESY OF PRIUS4

#7
GW helped to accelerate NK getting the "bomb". NK leaders probably think this is a good thing.
>>Madeleine Albright negotiated an agreement that if the US provided nuclear technology, materials and some actual components be
used for peaceful purposes and development of nuclear power. It was during the Bush Administration that it was discovered that NK
lied all along and developed refined methodology to make nuclear bombs. Madeleine Albright was a cabinet officer under the previous
presidential administration.

#8
He's contributing to Europe being more united than they have ever been. This is good for Europe.
>>The EU constitution a unifying document that all Europe would band together and be an economic force as well as a geopolitical
Force of the world, was rejected from vote by Great Britain, defeated in an election by French voters, and defeated in an election by
Netherlands or Dutch voters.

#9
China now owns the bulk of our deficit. This is good for China as it gives them leverage, like in their desire to buy Unocal.
>>>Another presidential administration sold the Panama Canal to the Chinese Government or did you forget that , while China is a
formidable competitor, and potential economic force in the world, they do have the largest population, the largest economic opportunity,
and frankly will not be stopped by this country, economically. By allowing such cross investment, it can reduce and allow control of trades
and relations and increase leverage this country can have against the Chinese., and note that this current administration MAY NOT approve
the sale UNOCAL to Chinese interests., and ps you all need to stop buying COTSCO, and WALMART.. PS Cotsco stands for Chinese Oil and
Trading Company SA.

#10
He has phenomenally increased recruiting for the terrorists. This is good for the terrorists.
>>My answer to that one is thanks to you it is working. Bush and his administration have through its military KILLED more terrorist then
have been recruited. I am not ashamed of our actions in the fight against terrorism.

#11
He has provided the terrorists with on the job training in Iraq. This is better training than they ever got in the mountains of Afghanistan.
This has helped the terrorists.
>>suicide bombing is the only tool left to them mostly., the OJT has been given as to how to get the 72 virgins, and one wonders in this
secular forum if such religious beliefs are given credence.

#12
By putting the war on the terrorists, those terrorists that actually had something to do with 9/11, on hold in Afghanistan, the heroin trade has greatly expanded there. This has helped drug addicts and inner city crime rates will probably go up. This should help keep cops & prison guards fully employed.
>>So I guess we need to give back Afghanistan to the TALIBAN, and since when getting more drugs is helping drug addicts, and FBI statistics do not indicate an increase in related crimes from drugs in this country, other factors yes, drugs not the sole reason for some increases.

#13
Under the leadership of Bolton, nuclear proliferation in the world has greatly expanded. This is also good for the terrorists. Since Bolton has been out of that job and in limbo over the UN job, there has been a slowdown in nuclear proliferation in the world. I guess you could say this was good for Americans.
>> What LEADERSHIP role has Bolton had, he has been advisory to leaders and has been nominated to be the UN Ambassador! How has nuclear proliferation
occurred as a direct result of his actions? It has been the reverse, for the Axis of Evil (NK,Iran..) under Bush they have been hampered and caught cheating
Bolton will be confirmed, in a deal about the incoming new supreme court judge or a pocket appointment will occur. The UN needs to be dealt with, don’t tell me you find nothing wrong there. This is a good leadership move for GW!

#14
He has given massive tax cuts to the rich. This has helped the rich. Unfortunately, much of that money then went into outsourcing jobs. Again this was good for those other countries, and for the rich.
>>>Facts do not conform to this statement, wise or unwise to reduce taxes as its own issue, some say that was not responsible in light of a looming deficit, but PERSONS WHO PAID taxes have a reduced tax burden, all across the spectrum. Class warfare, and a dislike of “trickle down†theory might be your opinion, but facts clearly show that tax cuts, increases the $0 tax rate to a much larger segment of people, and my median income, the tax cut were welcome.

$$$$15
By weakening clean air and clean water standards, he has improved profits for some corporations. This is good for rich people, and will likely end up improving job opportunities for doctors, as pollution goes up. And undertakers.
>>>MTBE.., government mandated quickly..now it is a problem….A balance must be reached., I do not believe GW harmed the environment. Kyoto..he clearly staed and explained why the US vetoed this mandate. Developing countries such as India and China were fully exempted, industrial growth in developed nations stymied, this had nothing to do with saving the world environment, China and India stand to pollute this world much more then we ever did. This Kyoto accords was nothing more then a meager attempt to re-distribute the world’s economic elements, and really had little to do with really solving environmental problems.

OK, there's about 10 good things Bush has done IN MY OPINION. FIRST YOU HAVE THE INITIAL POST BY YOU KNOW WHO, THEN I ANSWER., didn’t think a country boy from Texas could be so smart did you… I think there is more facts in my responses then yours, but that is my opinion.


â€Oh and he united the Democrats. Something that has never happened before in history. But as IA will probably tell you, Democrats hate America, so this too is not a good thing for America.†PS I am the divisive one remember??

 

Hey Hybrid DAVE

Lets see you do the SAME., FACTS NOT OPINIONS

 

Hybrid_Dave:
Now what have you got to say for yourself?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IALTMANN\";p=\"103874)</div>

Actually, Bush was asked this question many times during his run for governor and he evaded the question many times. I don't see this as some kind of "honesty". In the 2000 campaign, his answer was more polished. That is when he used the language you descibed above.

And the lies that led us into putting the war on terror on hold, so he could barge into Iraq is insurmountable.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IALTMANN\";p=\"103874)</div>

I fully realize that this sounds foolish, but do you have any evidence that this is not true? The evidence is pretty strong that Clinton was not a widespread cocaine or MJ user, nor heavy into alcohol. The evidence is pretty strong that Bush was all 3. I actually don’t have a problem with Bush if he did uses drugs a lot back when he was a child in his early 40s. But I do have a problem with the hypocrisy of bringing up Clintons “dabbling†in MJ as some kind of way to ignore Bush’s wholesale embrace of it.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IALTMANN\";p=\"103874)</div>

Then you must think Clinton is God’s gift to American security. The first Al Qaida attack on American soil was in 1993. The second attack on American soil was in 2001. That’s 9 years. Bush has only succeeded so far in 4 years.

My point is, these people are very patient. 4 years is nothing. But the numbers of Arabs who hate us has skyrocketed, and the ones who want to be violent to us has similarly skyrocketed.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IALTMANN\";p=\"103874)</div>

Actually, when you add up all taxes that Americans pay, those in the middle class and lower have seen their burden go up substantially and the burden on the rich has gone down substantially. It is naive to look at Federal taxes in a vacuum, but this is exactly what the GW spinners want you to believe. Plus, you have not figured in how the massive deficits this has caused will need to be paid back in the future. Thus, it is hard to justify that Bush cut taxes, he only shifted the burden to the states and to the future.

And I’ve yet to meet a teacher who can tell me that our schools are better from GW’s no child left behind act. We’ll be “paying†for that one too in the future.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IALTMANN\";p=\"103874)</div>

Thanks for reminding me as to why I’m wasting my time responding to you. This is the crux of why people in Priuschat are annoyed with the way you discuss issues. You have now just stated that I have no knowledge of decency and honor.

I have no problem with you differing with my conclusions or coming up with different facts to promote your case. Indeed, I’ve discussed things with other conservatives on the board and been stimulated and learned things. They deserved my respect.

I will probably still respond to other points in this thread because it is so full of distortion that I do not want other readers of Priuschat to think there may be facts here. But I will no longer be responding to you per se.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IALTMANN\";p=\"103877)</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IALTMANN\";p=\"103879)</div>

:roll: :roll: :roll:

By the way, Mr. teacher, your English is as good as the President's (and that is no compliment).

then
adv.
At that time: I was still in school then. Come at noon; I'll be ready then.
Next in time, space, or order; immediately afterward: watched the late movie and then went to bed.
In addition; moreover; besides: It costs $20, and then there's the sales tax to pay.
Used after but to qualify or balance a preceding statement: The star was nervous, but then who isn't on the first night of a new play.
In that case; accordingly: If traffic is heavy, then allow extra time.
As a consequence; therefore: The case, then, is closed.

than
conj.
Used after a comparative adjective or adverb to introduce the second element or clause of an unequal comparison: She is a better athlete than I.
Used to introduce the second element after certain words indicating difference: He draws quite differently than she does.
When. Used especially after hardly and scarcely: I had scarcely walked in the door than the commotion started.

 

Well. I'm not filthy rich. I'm a poor student. In fact, I do believe we are living at the defined poverty line.

[correction. last year's tax forms indicate we were slightly above. this year will be better.]

Yet our taxes percentage-wise have gone up quite a bit since W took office...

Explain that.