Down to the Rapture

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 27 2007, 11:23 PM) [snapback]413342[/snapback]</div>

'Alan', that little buddy? He went on his way. I said it very clearly, he was on vacation, and as God decided to put him in the church I was working at, and then God set things up so we could talk...Well, 'Alan', he (the one who knows you, or thought he did at least), that person went home.

'Alan', when there was some discussion as to sharing names, Mark, and myself, we had already made our names clear. For we had nothing to hide. You know, some would call that having faith that nothing bad would happen.

Anyway, 'Alan', you were very reluctant to share your name, as was loveittoomuchbutisafraidofsharinghisname. Frankly, I still think that anyone not willing to share at least a first name, on a Internet forum board, especially when they are passionate about what they are talking about, shows their weakness in their belief in their argument.

So when you suddenly popped up with a name, I found it suspect, given your obvious paranoid nature. One that is still prevalent, since 'Alan' you are so worked up by what one person had to say about you, that I met for about 15 minutes.

If you fear nothing, then only nothing can scare you.


Look! There is nothing! Run! Run for your lives!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 27 2007, 11:23 PM) [snapback]413342[/snapback]</div>

So, 'Alan', are you suggesting that an early leader of the church, Paul, thought we should not be married if we are serving the Lord? Are you suggesting that every Pastor, Preacher, would be better off, better suited, if they were not married, if they are?

Is that what you are suggesting?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 27 2007, 11:23 PM) [snapback]413342[/snapback]</div>

I...think I might agree with you on this. If what you are saying, is that it's sick and perverted for male priests to not be married in the Catholic church, which leads some of them to having sex with altar boys.. Then we are in rare agreement.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 27 2007, 11:23 PM) [snapback]413342[/snapback]</div>

'Alan', that is what I have been saying. That church is filled with rituals that are outdated, and don't apply to today's person. I have seen so many fundie type churches turn people away, just because they dress different...rituals are ruining today's church. Glad you see that way, 'Alan'.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 27 2007, 11:23 PM) [snapback]413342[/snapback]</div>

Wow. 'Alan', how is it you and I are so much in agreement here? I work for free. I do things that are often not in my job description. It is harder and harder to find churches that love people, and not hate them because they are of a different background, or they approach God in a way that is not quite the same as they do...

I often said, before I became a Preacher, I would do it for free, if this is what God was calling me to do, and here I am, doing it for free, and helping out churches...it's wonderful that you see the same way as I do; that it's far better to work for free for God's Kingdom then to get paid for it.

(Seriously! I am being 100% serious! I know that a lot of Pastors have to earn money and all, but if they could do it for free, or cheaper, wouldn't that send a great message?)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 27 2007, 11:23 PM) [snapback]413342[/snapback]</div>

'Alan', you often quote the Bible; but how come you don't respond when it's quoted at you?

'Alan', I think you still need to heed this scripture:
Ephesians 4:15 (TMSG)
God wants us to grow up, to know the whole truth and tell it in love—like Christ in everything. We take our lead from Christ, who is the source of everything we do.
(the KJV, just for you...)

Ephesians 4:15 (KJV)
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ

Or this one: According to the Word, you have to forgive me 70 times 7.

Matthew 18:21 –Matthew 18:22 (KJV)
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Or this:
Ephesians 4:11 –Ephesians 4:16 (TMSG)
He handed out gifts of apostle, prophet, evangelist, and pastor-teacher
to train Christians in skilled servant work, working within Christ’s body, the church,
until we’re all moving rhythmically and easily with each other, efficient and graceful in response to God’s Son, fully mature adults, fully developed within and without, fully alive like Christ.
No prolonged infancies among us, please. We’ll not tolerate babes in the woods, small children who are an easy mark for impostors.

God wants us to grow up, to know the whole truth and tell it in love—like Christ in everything. We take our lead from Christ, who is the source of everything we do.
He keeps us in step with each other. His very breath and blood flow through us, nourishing us so that we will grow up healthy in God, robust in love.
The Old Way Has to Go


'Alan', I will offer this olive branch to you: You agree to stop thinking everyone but you is wrong, and be more tolerant of other beliefs, and I will stop calling you ALAN or 'Alan' and try my best to be just as tolerant of you.


Alan, it's not to late for you to repent, and offer the charitable forgiveness and understanding that Christ offered.

Imagine, that if you did this, on this thread, all of those that thought you could not change, would not change, well, they would be proven wrong, me included.

Wouldn't that be a Good Thingâ„¢ to do?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Mar 27 2007, 05:27 PM) [snapback]413159[/snapback]</div>

Peachy, thanks!

And yourself?

 

Come on 'Alan', just state here that you now believe that whatever anyone says is a valid and true statement. In fact, I have some for you to validate for me, I would like you to be tolerant of my viewpoint by agreeing that I could be right.

I believe that 5 + 8 = 21 and that it should be taught as a viable alternative in high school math classes and I think it would be very Christ like for you to accept me and my belief as truth and tell everyone here that you can accept this. For you to reject my way, you would be considered bigoted and intolerant on this forum and you wouldn't want people to think that of you, 'Alan'.

I also believe that at the center of the earth is a giant worm that is the real alone cause of earthquakes. Again, this belief of mine should be taught as fact in high school and college science and for all the reasons stated in my belief in my math formula, you should just tell the kind folks here on Prius Chat that you support what I believe.

Who are you to take hard lines on these kind of Math and Science issues and continue on here to tell me I'm wrong? Will you continue to state that 5 + 8 = 13? Isn't that a little narrow minded?

ALAN

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Mar 28 2007, 12:04 PM) [snapback]413543[/snapback]</div>

Cool. Just boosted my zen factor by a few points. Another chatter on ignore!! Yippee!!!!!!!

 

Again what with the NAME Game your playing here TJ?

Most of us could really careless what you think of us, as you think we do of you..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hycamguy07 @ Mar 28 2007, 11:59 AM) [snapback]413585[/snapback]</div>

The Name Game...wasn't that a song???

Look, piousguy, er, hycamguy, in other car forums I participate in, when it comes to discussions of science, religion, politics, the main players have never been afraid to let the others know their first name at least.

I have gained real world friends from those sites, and spoken, met up, those people. No harm.
You can address me, since my name is in my screen name, which is fine, but where is the courtesy of others? It's not like if you reveal your first name, on a site like this, that someone will find out your address, and come and do evil things to you. It's just that simple.

And, on a totally religious note, if you truly believe that God has your back, you have nothing to fear, then, do you?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Mar 28 2007, 11:04 AM) [snapback]413543[/snapback]</div>

Yep, inbetween the lines!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 28 2007, 07:53 AM) [snapback]413467[/snapback]</div>

Well, fighting the lonely battle against intolerance has it's moments.

It frustrates me to no end, that just because you believe that black is white, that all who believe otherwise, are wrong, and you have to declare them all evil and doomed, in order to have feelings of adequacy.

I may believe different then others here, but not once, have I declared those who don't believe as I do, that they are going to hell, or are doomed unless they repent, or whatever.

Now, I know, I know, that here on a small site in the middle of cyberspace, that the intolerance of a few may seem insignificant, but my thought is that they represent many more, and that my friend, is what worries me.

That such intolerance is abound in the year 2007; really something.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Mar 28 2007, 11:04 AM) [snapback]413543[/snapback]</div>

Are you really like this beyond the safety of these lines? Are you really that close minded, that intolerant of other views? Do you walk up to people that are gathering outside a mosque, and tell then they are doomed?

Do you mock your coworker that is once a day on his knees in prayer to Allah? Do you snicker behind the backs of your Jewish friends?

Are you really that way?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Mar 28 2007, 02:58 PM) [snapback]413661[/snapback]</div>

I still think they are the fundamental fringe--and my father is one of them. For every windstrings, there are is my Methodist best friend (who isn't quite as a liberal Christian as you are, but is close). And there are a few like me. And a few like you. And an atheist on the opposite fringe. It's just that at times, because the fundie fringe is speaking the loudest (and certainly the LONGEST), they seem like the norm. They're not. And they're happy being the fringe, I think. Because you engage with them, and it's like banging your head against a rock, then it's more painful to you, and exacerbates the argument. Even those who consider themselves evangelists don't always preach damnation. There are levels.

But you know what else is scary? Those who attribute their belief systems to something that they truly haven't studied at all--they've just "joined the club" for the sake of being in a club. Or because their parents were in that club.

While both kinds of people scare me, I think it's the non-studiers that scare me worse. Blind followers...egads. They can be fooled with any a number of lies.

Don't lose hope, dear TJ. Where there is hope, there is light!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 28 2007, 02:19 PM) [snapback]413678[/snapback]</div>

Thanks for the encouragement!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Mar 28 2007, 12:04 PM) [snapback]413543[/snapback]</div>

I know you're being facetious, but to me, this illustrates the concept of Freedom of Religion. None of us has a monopoly on the truth. We each have our own beliefs and convictions, but they're only interpretations of reality, and may or may not have anything at all to do with the deeper philosophical concept of what's real. You are free to believe whatever you want, and so is everyone else. By denying others that right, you are in effect giving up your own.

 

I'm just giving you the scripture to grapple with yourself.....

What I think means nothing... nor what you think...



thats why God confirms his word so that others will know its from him and not from the messinger.

 

TJ dont let the wingbats get to you. You rock nice person in my book.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 28 2007, 05:55 PM) [snapback]413822[/snapback]</div>

Alan, you often quote the Bible; but how come you (still) don't respond when it's quoted at you?

Alan, I think you still need to heed this scripture:
Ephesians 4:15 (TMSG)
God wants us to grow up, to know the whole truth and tell it in love—like Christ in everything. We take our lead from Christ, who is the source of everything we do.
(the KJV, just for you...)

Ephesians 4:15 (KJV)
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ

Or this one: According to the Word, you have to forgive me 70 times 7.

Matthew 18:21 –Matthew 18:22 (KJV)
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Or this:
Ephesians 4:11 –Ephesians 4:16 (TMSG)
He handed out gifts of apostle, prophet, evangelist, and pastor-teacher
to train Christians in skilled servant work, working within Christ’s body, the church,
until we’re all moving rhythmically and easily with each other, efficient and graceful in response to God’s Son, fully mature adults, fully developed within and without, fully alive like Christ.
No prolonged infancies among us, please. We’ll not tolerate babes in the woods, small children who are an easy mark for impostors.

God wants us to grow up, to know the whole truth and tell it in love—like Christ in everything. We take our lead from Christ, who is the source of everything we do.
He keeps us in step with each other. His very breath and blood flow through us, nourishing us so that we will grow up healthy in God, robust in love.
The Old Way Has to Go


/////still waiting...



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 28 2007, 06:26 PM) [snapback]413832[/snapback]</div>

:lol: Thanks! Rock nice person...that's great.

 

I think one of the confusing things people have about God is that their view of Love varies from what Gods is.

People quote scripture as if they defend it, but at the same time don't understand so many of them and so reject them as bunk.

So many people think they understand the God of love... but don't understand love.

God says if a father loves his son, he will chastize him... but people think thats cruel.
(Prov 3:12 NKJV) For whom the LORD loves He corrects, Just as a father the son in whom he delights.

People think they can judge God on some kind of "whats fair" scale to determine his nobleness and love... but God is soveriegn. He that is chosen by God as a vessel of mercy should be thankful as are not all chosen.

(Rom 9:21 NKJV) Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
(Rom 9:22 NKJV) What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
(Rom 9:23 NKJV) and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,

(Rom 9:25 NKJV) As He says also in Hosea: "I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved."
(Rom 9:26 NKJV) "And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' There they shall be called sons of the living God."

(Rom 9:30 NKJV) What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith;
(Rom 9:31 NKJV) but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.
(Rom 9:32 NKJV) Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.

<span style="color:#000000">So does God "not love" the Jews or the Gentiles?......

Answer is.... neither.. he loves the both.
But only one is called the sons of the living God.

So is God just or unjust?

In Job is a very interesting discourse..... Job had a relationship with God and his two friends only knew him by principle.
As you read this story, the two friends persist in accusing Job of being sinful before the lord because a Just God would never do such things to him otherwise.... but they didn't know the God of love.

(<span style="color:#ff0000">Job 42:7 NKJV) And so it was, after the LORD had spoken these words to Job, that the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "My wrath is aroused against you and your two friends, for you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.

<span style="color:#000000">Who is it thats right before God.. the one with a relationship that "knows" God, or the one that has rationalized God and made him into what they can understand and be comfortable with?

God have mercy on us all.... without the Holy Spirit to confirm what relation we are to God.. we know nothing.</span></span></span>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Mar 28 2007, 09:57 PM) [snapback]413925[/snapback]</div>

Excellent!.. lets examine that scripture that your taking and lets add the rest of the passage as they are all of the same thought.

I hope you don't mind that I will take the liberty to "highlight" the parts you didn't think were important for our conversation.

(Eph 4:14 NKJV) that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
(Eph 4:15 NKJV) but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head; Christ;
(Eph 4:16 NKJV) from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
(Eph 4:17 NKJV) This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,
(Eph 4:18 NKJV) having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;
(Eph 4:19 NKJV) who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
(Eph 4:20 NKJV) But you have not so learned Christ,
(Eph 4:21 NKJV) if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
(Eph 4:22 NKJV) that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
(Eph 4:23 NKJV) and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
(Eph 4:24 NKJV) and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
(Eph 4:25 NKJV) Therefore, putting away lying, "Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor," for we are members of one another.
(Eph 4:26 NKJV) "Be angry, and do not sin": do not let the sun go down on your wrath,
(Eph 4:27 NKJV) nor give place to the devil.
(Eph 4:28 NKJV) Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need.
(Eph 4:29 NKJV) Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.
(Eph 4:30 NKJV) And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
(Eph 4:31 NKJV) Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
(Eph 4:32 NKJV) And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you.
(Eph 5:1 NKJV) Therefore be imitators of God as dear children.
(Eph 5:2 NKJV) And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
(Eph 5:3 NKJV) But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints;
(Eph 5:4 NKJV) neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.
(Eph 5:5 NKJV) For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
(Eph 5:6 NKJV) Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
(Eph 5:7 NKJV) Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Dang... not much room for the liberal mentality in all that eh?.... maybe we better go back to Luuuv?

 

When you guys tire out and need a diversion, here's a thought experiment to wrap your collective minds around whose answer (if it's got one) won't be found in the bible:

You're on a stage on a popular TV game show telecast world wide called "Beat God At His Own Game". In front of you are two boxes on a table. One's opaque; the other is made of clear plastic, inside of which is a bundle of $100 bills totaling $10,000. After a brief fanfare played by the studio band, God himself materializes right there on the stage with you!
"Ready?" he greets you, smiling broadly. "Here's the deal. 45 million years ago I put $1,000,000 in today's currency into that opaque box. I'm God, I can do anything. Or I didn't; the box is empty. Whether I did or not 45 million years ago depended on my knowledge back then of what you're about to do after I leave the stage tonight. Being God, of course, my prescience is infallible, I knew then the same as I know now what you're about to do. With me so far?"

You nod.

"You have two choices. You can take both boxes off the table and their combined contents is yours. Or you can take ONLY the opaque box and keep its contents. 45 million years ago I knew which of these choices you're about to make. If I knew you're going to take BOTH boxes, I left the opaque box empty. But if I knew you'll take ONLY the opaque box, I stuffed it with $1,000,000 of today's currency. This game's been a hit every week for the last fifty years and not a single contestant has yet Beat Me At My Own Game!" And with a flash, God vanishes, poof!

You look, heart pounding, at the boxes on the table. The opaque box is yellow with age - it hasn't been touched for 45 million years. If it's holding $1,000,000, that money's been there all that time. God already made his decision and won't rescind it.

But it could be empty - and God won't rescind that decision either, if you choose it alone (and risk becoming God's first mistake).

Meanwhile, there's a certain $10,000 to be had by simply taking both boxes. And what you do now can in no way alter a decision made 45 million years before you were born - so what is your BEST choice?

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Mar 29 2007, 01:13 AM) [snapback]414006[/snapback]</div>

Take neither. Your best choice is the one where you don't gain something you did not work for. And here is the Bible verse ot support it.

2 Thessalonians 3:12 (ISV)
We order and encourage such people by the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living.


====
So, there you go. I wonder if that is what you meant; did you want me to find a Bible verse to support my choice?

 

Alan...Alan...Why not answer directly? But, I'll play alone. Why not?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 28 2007, 11:38 PM) [snapback]413972[/snapback]</div>

What is your problem with liberal mentality? You are aware you on a PRIUS site, which is a site devoted to the very liberal idea of HYBRID cars, right?

Wouldn't that make you a bit...liberal?

Anyway. I decided to take all of your bold-ed text, and bunch it here. See what you think.

------
we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

That you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, putting away lying, "Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor," for we are members of one another.
Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you.

But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
Because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
---------

...Did Christ say that? No? Oh, that's right...it's from a letter...from Paul. So, you can take what you like, or what you don't like, from it.

Now, the parts I like, I'll include here.

We should no longer be children, that you should no longer walk as the rest .
We are members of one another.
Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace.
Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you.
==

So much more to the point; so much more what I think Christ would say. Note, I left out the parts that Paul put in, the parts that would lead one to hating others that don't agree.

If you want, you can put me down, which is fine...but you would be disobeying what you think is God's word.