Down to the Rapture

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ Mar 20 2007, 01:11 PM) [snapback]409047[/snapback]</div>

That so such bolonge.. the Bible and the Koran been the backbone to the deaths/murders of billions of people, of course they are still around. People don't forget genocide that easily.

Human Organized Religion is the reason it's still around.. not the "Hand of God".

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ Mar 20 2007, 02:11 PM) [snapback]409047[/snapback]</div>

I can. Here's two:

The Iliad
The Odyssey

These, of course, were penned by Homer. Did God hold his hand, too?

And Hesiod wrote a couple of things, too, around the same time if memory serves.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 20 2007, 01:44 PM) [snapback]409067[/snapback]</div>

The Epic of Gilgamesh.

And loads of japanese, chinese and other oriental cultural books we are not exposed to as westerners.

 

The idea about the tornado..... I suppose if the person sat in their house and ignored the warning and rationalized it by saying.. Yea.. I've heard that before.. or.. they always go around us... or I won't happen to me... when it does happen and his family is wiped out and he is the sole survivor.. I'm sure he would feel "responsible" for his family dying as he made a bad judgement call by ignoring the warning.

The bible has evolved and in a sense is still evolving... every day preachers and pastors are writing letters and sermons that are inspired of the Holy Spirit and some day should we still be around.. another king james could add more books with a massive array of scholars to help direct the judgement.

I'm in no way saying the bible is incomplete in the sense it is missing something we need, because I really think God had a play in what we ended up with.

Are other writings worthy of being included?.. maybe, but they weren't... so what?
Are there writings that happen today that are worthy of being included?.. I think so.. but they weren't .. so what?

Is the bible the inspired word of God.... yes, and it was written through man.

As man speaks what he sees from God.. sometimes it is partial in the sense that he sees through a darkly or can't see every detail but only gets parts.
Revelations is spoken is symbolisms mixed with prophecy and types and shadows.
Much of the word of God is similiar.... and some is literal.

Why can't it all be literal?.. God wrote it in such a way that those that we would still need a spiritual eye to interpret much of it so it makes sense.

Why is God being so evasive and tricky?... the same reason he wasn't obvious about is death and ressurection until it happened... its giving the enemy that plans of war.

The devil and people against the cause of God would attempt to botch and overule things.. so God in his wisdom made it apparent to those who open thier hearts to know him while its still invisible to those of a darkened heart that has not been awakened by his Holy Spirit to see into that realm.

In reality..they are mere words on paper... but the power of those words is wrapped up in the authority behind them. Spoken words have the power of creation when the power of God is behind them....even if they are spoken from a mere christian. The weakest christian on the planet has more authority than the strongest devil.

Our experience and salvation in God is not dependent merely upon words on paper... but when the God that inspired those words comes into our heart to teach us and open our eyes to his words.. then it all starts to make sense.
Then as we learn to hear his voice.. he adds to those words with details to fit our daily lives that brings the existing written words alive even more with multiple confirmations in our spirit.

We are not depedent merely upon writings from thousands of years ago that did or didn't get tainted through the ages, but we have enough word to have Gods presence manifested in us so that the existing word along with todays experience all fits like a glove hand in hand.

I know this all sounds frustrating crazy to anyone who has not experienced it.. but God has things set up so that you first believe.. then you see.. not the other way around.

If that sounds rediculous, consider when your first fell in love.... did you first analyse and understand everything before you surrendered your heart?... Something grabbed you and based on what you felt and "knew" you surrendered. God made us that way.. thats the way love works.. it sees no evil.......

Unfortunately giving our hearts to a man or woman is risky business.. epecially if they are not surrendered to the Lord themselves.. because they are so vulnerable to being flaky and drawn away by temptation without the strength of the Lord.... nevertheless.. its the way God made our hearts to work.

But surrendering to God is a sure bet... he will never fail... God wants the same Groom and Bride relationship with us that he created in marriage.
Where the whole world is filled with the other person... yes that crazy foolish puppylove that newlyweds experience.... that majic was given of God and he wants the same of us... except with him, he is so vast and deep, he never becomes commonplace.

Without the Holy Spirit to make God real, the bible just seems like a historical book with many of confusing misunderstandings that are questionable, since we can't "bear witness" with it.

(John 14:25 NKJV) "These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.
(John 14:26 NKJV) "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ Mar 20 2007, 01:11 PM) [snapback]409047[/snapback]</div>

1. The Art of War, Sun Tzu (6th Century BCE)
2. Tao Te Ching, Lao Tzu (~600 BCE)
3. Metamorphoses, Ovid (~8 BCE)
4. The Iliad, Homer (8th Century BCE)
5. The Odyssey, Homer (8th Century BCE)

Darn you, livelychick! I got called away and you beat me to The Iliad and The Odyssey!

 

The bible has evolved.... the first 5 books were supposedly written by Moses in (1450 - 1410 B.C.).

http://www.allabouttruth.org/when-was-the-...written-faq.htm

But as discussed earlier... was he drawing off of older writings only available at that time, or divine inspiration of God.... because he wrote of events that happened far before his time.

Mose did have some unique experiences with God on the mountain..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 20 2007, 01:46 PM) [snapback]409069[/snapback]</div>

If God existed it would tell loveit and windstrings to please give it a rest.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Mar 20 2007, 02:46 PM) [snapback]409070[/snapback]</div>

Sorry!

Let me add a BIG one to the list...the Rgveda (or Rigveda), which has been claimed to be penned 1700-1100 BC. Today, this text is revered by Hindus around the world, primarily in India and Nepal. Its verses are recited at prayers, religious functions and other auspicious occasions. So, if we're worshipping according to age of religious texts, I guess we should all be praying to Vishnu.

Sound familiar? probably not...

Once again, your lack of KNOWLEDGE in these posts is killing me, windstrings. I have no doubt of the ferocity of your beliefs, but seriously, go learn something before you post.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Mar 20 2007, 12:50 PM) [snapback]409079[/snapback]</div>

Thats funny!... but the logic sounds almost like Hollywood defending the R rating in movies and now cable TV... they say its ok to show during family hours because if you really don't want to watch it, you can change the channel.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 20 2007, 02:54 PM) [snapback]409084[/snapback]</div>

:huh:

What? That analogy makes NO sense.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 20 2007, 12:57 PM) [snapback]409089[/snapback]</div>

Nothing I say makes sense to you.. must be because I have no knowledge.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 20 2007, 01:59 PM) [snapback]409092[/snapback]</div>

Abundant w/ ignorance and direly lacking in wisdom. Two very bad things, in MOST religions..

Pretty dangerous actually.. strong belief or faith with no fundamental basis in reality. Null respect for others view points, yet radical in your own. Sounds like a recipe that's been in just about every war/genocide committed by "Christians".

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 20 2007, 01:22 PM) [snapback]409101[/snapback]</div>

Its hard to say what the other person has doesn't exist.

Its much easier for the person who has something to see that the person with nothing is empty.

Have you ever marveled at a 3 year old or a teenager for that matter that thinks they know so much... even enough to attempt to correct you and they know nothing?

How can he that has not, correct the person that has, to tell him that which he has is not real?

We are honestly talking about very basic fundamentals to spiritual living, yet those who know nothing about it want to correct those who know something?.. How is that possible?

If we discuss the basics and they cannot be comprehended.. how can we go to deeper matters?

Why can't the person who doesn't understand acknowledge that there may be something they are missing rather than discount the ones who have understanding?

Why not take this as an opportunity to find something new and precious rather than folks getting enraged?

(John 3:7 NKJV) "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
(John 3:8 NKJV) "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
(John 3:9 NKJV) Nicodemus answered and said to Him, "How can these things be?"
(John 3:10 NKJV) Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?
(John 3:11 NKJV) "Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness.
(John 3:12 NKJV) "If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

Thats right.. livelygirl.. duck!..... maybe one day you'll be offguard and not duck and you may actually get it!

Quit ducking!!!





<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 20 2007, 01:22 PM) [snapback]409101[/snapback]</div>

Desynch.. I understand what your trying to say.. but if you can see it and understand it, its not faith at all.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 20 2007, 03:43 PM) [snapback]409118[/snapback]</div>

I understand all of your basics. You understand none of mine.

I understand and acknowledge that you hold your belief system in the utmost regard, and should. While I don't share your beliefs, I respect them. You clearly cannot say the same of me.

The only time I have gotten enraged by you is when you try to frame who I am within YOUR belief system. You want to preach your beliefs? I'll listen, understand, and applaud. Until they become repellent because they exclude or condemn.

 

How do you know that livelychick "doesn't get it" .. How do you know that it's YOU that doesn't get it?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 20 2007, 02:06 PM) [snapback]409134[/snapback]</div>

When your on one side of the fence and think its better on the other, only the person that has gone to the other can confirm or deny.

I've been without God and I know how it feels to try and grab for something that seems invisible and intangible...
Now that I'm on the other side, I can argue both side whether good or bad.

We are in quite a fix if we need to really see God before we accept him.
All we can really say is "God if your really real...save me and show yourself to me".

And seek counsel from those who have been on both sides "not from those who have never crossed over as they don't know".

We all had the same struggles... especially me... I'm too analytical for my own good and that works against you when your first learning about God and can only see very few pieces of the puzzle.

Its much easier now that God has shown me more pieces over time, but it was quite a struggle for me in the beginning. Now when my faith gets challenged, its on a higher level than when I was younger.

It really all starts with the cry of the heart and spirit.... somehow they "know" when they come in contact with God that its the real thing... the mind only gets in the way as its pretty clueless to the things of God.

Almost like it was created to navigate in this physical realm and so it clashes with the spirit...

or possibly more accurately said.. Its been programmed by the world not to see God, so now it can't.... plus the inherent sin blocks the view as the spirit gets greived with the attachments to sin.
But the spirit world itself is often much easier to comprehend to children because they are trusting, full of faith and haven't been deprogrammed against it yet.

(Mark 10:15 NKJV) "Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it."

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 20 2007, 03:32 PM) [snapback]409144[/snapback]</div>

I was unaware that you practiced any other religion other than Christianity.

 

I've been on both sides, or more than one, I should say, not to imply there's only two. My grandfather and my father were ministers, my wife was a church organist, and I'm an atheist.

As for the bible being the oldest book comment, there is a civilisation not too far from here that's lived on the same islands for ten thousand years. Most of their culture has been passed down through stories that predate books by many millennia.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 20 2007, 03:16 PM) [snapback]409166[/snapback]</div>

Not all obviously.. but I played around with transcendental meditation and had a few "scary" out of body experiences... as well as encounters with demons etc while I was playing in that "illegal" arena..... fortunately.. God was still watching and protecting me through it all and it only made me stronger rather than taking me out.

My first marriage lasted 2 years and I was wounded pretty bad... I was working 3 jobs to make ends meet and she left me for some guy she meet at the pool hall while visiting with her friend... Our baby was 6 months old when I found out about the situation and to make a long story short.. the state awarded her "everything".. our baby, house, car, land etc... left me with nothing but the vehicle I drove and all the bills for things she got to keep while cheating on me with other man.

I guess I kinda asked for it as I allowed myself to wander from the Lord as "she was not Holy Spirit filled" and any time I tried to grow close to God, she only saw it as a threat.. my prayer time, music, who I wanted to associate with.. all was foreign to her... so I was stupid and followed the first person that gave me attention.
She only wanted a turnkey to get her out from under her mothers rule and her funky stepfather that may had been abusing her.....

Anyway..I grew bitter and took a 6 year venture away from the Lord. During that time I studied some of the alternatives.

There is in fact some reality out there!... but its reality thats not out for our best interest and we can get in over our heads quite quick if we play with that fire.

The road back to God was very hard for me... allot of weeds had grown up on the trail to find him.

Once you've had the Lord, you will never be happy till you go back.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 20 2007, 01:32 PM) [snapback]409144[/snapback]</div>

That's very true. Bot not without some caveats:
1. Your interpretation of your perceptions is limited to how much knowledge you bring to making the assessment. A primitive man experiencing the vision of a total solar eclipse for the first time in his life will be terrified out of his mind, and, having no knowledge whatsoever of astronomics, cannot possibly make a correct interpretation of the phenomenon. Whatever he thinks is going on, it's almost certainly going to be wrong. You may think you can make an educated assessment of the "greenness" of the pasture on either side of a fence because you've been to both sides, but be completely ignorant of the fact that one of the pastures is really just a lifelike synthetic which, without knowing from some outside source that it is a synthetic, you'd mistake for the real thing.

2. There're a lot more than one fence; try umpteen squabillion fences. Or more. Our entire history is crossing one fence after another into perceived greener pastures, sometimes successfully, other times into something worse, but always adding to our store of knowledge, making the next crossing and the reasons for doing so increasingly likely to be successful and sound. You're putting forward an argument that you've crossed a single fence and arrived - no more crossing fences for you; you're in your perfect pasture. Not all of us are that easily satisfied, nor convinced that there are no more fences to cross.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA