Down to the Rapture

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Mar 10 2007, 10:56 PM) [snapback]403638[/snapback]</div>

yea.. thats pretty funny!... Jesus was a Jew! as were his diciples... I pretty sure they all believed in Jesus!...

But as a whole Nation, they still have the blinders on and will not acknowledge him as messiah or the christ until he returns as saves them right before thier almost wiped out.


(John 12:37 NKJV) But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him,
(John 12:38 NKJV) that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke: "Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?"
(John 12:39 NKJV) Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:
(John 12:40 NKJV) "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, Lest they should see with their eyes, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them."
(John 12:41 NKJV) These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.
(John 12:42 NKJV) Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue;

(2 Cor 3:14 NKJV) But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
(2 Cor 3:15 NKJV) But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
(2 Cor 3:16 NKJV) Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

(2 Cor 4:3 NKJV) But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
(2 Cor 4:4 NKJV) whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

(Luke 13:34 NKJV) "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing!
(Luke 13:35 NKJV) "See! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!'"


What was the purpose of all this?.... it is part of Gods plan so that salvation could be offered to the rest of the world "The Gentiles".... this time we are now in is called the "time of the Gentiles".

(Rom 11:7 NKJV) What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
(Rom 11:8 NKJV) Just as it is written: "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day."
(Rom 11:9 NKJV) And David says: "Let their table become a snare and a trap, A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
(Rom 11:10 NKJV) Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see, and bow down their back always."
(Rom 11:11 NKJV) I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.

(Luke 21:24 NKJV) "And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
(Luke 21:25 NKJV) "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;
(Luke 21:26 NKJV) "men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken.
(Luke 21:27 NKJV) "Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
(Luke 21:28 NKJV) "Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."

 

blah blah blah, more scripture. blah blah blah.

Must be easy to go through life not having your own opinions, but relying on a book written written by a bunch of drunk guys, that was edited by a bunch of scoundrels with a hidden agenda - to provide you with a way to think.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 11 2007, 02:02 PM) [snapback]403843[/snapback]</div>

Well you know what the say what opinions are like!... and everybody has one!!!...

They're just about that valuable too!....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ Mar 11 2007, 04:52 AM) [snapback]403729[/snapback]</div>

I have to support IsrAmeriPrius on this one. A Jew who believes Jesus is the Messiah is correct on that point, but he is not correct that he is still a practicing Jew. He is a Christian. He is not a Jew.

Why do I say that? Because there's a basic question at work here. Who gets to say who is a Jew and who is not? Who gets to say who is a member of your church? Isn't it the members of your church? The Jews get to say who is a Jew. And they overwhelmingly agree that a 'completed Jew' is simply a Jew who converted to Christianity.

They will accept non-religious folks as Jews by heritage, but not Christians. That seems harsh, until you realize that for Jews, being a Christian is a fine thing, as long as you learn to worship the one true God. For a Jew to convert, he has to agree that Jesus is God, a concept so foreign to the monotheism of Judaism that it necessarily makes combining the two faiths impossible.

My observations about the folks in the Jews for Jesus type of groups is that they are generally nominal or non-religious Jews, who have a Jewish mother who married a nominally Christian man. The only thing they share with the Jewish faith is usually a grandparent who actually practiced the religion. There are very few religious Jews who convert to Christianity.

However, it is my opinion that we have a lot to learn from the Jews, and if you find the right Rabbi, they are willing to share things with you. They have no goal of converting you to Judaism, as they have no reason to (its actually HARD to become a Jew). I believe the "chosen" part of their heritage was that they were chosen as teachers and heralds about the one true God, and their understanding of the Hebrew Scriptures is extremely valuable to Christians.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ Mar 11 2007, 05:52 AM) [snapback]403729[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 11 2007, 06:26 AM) [snapback]403735[/snapback]</div>

Mazel tov, loveit (and windstrings), for your friends who are Jews. (Some of my best friends...)

Yup. Jesus was Jewish, as were all his contemporaneous followers. I believe it was JOHN, the first and foremost PR guy, who changed the rules.

The followers of Jesus started getting peeved by the strict rules of the Jews (Kashrut, for one), and the rules for the CULT of Jesus got changed to maintain and increase followers--to make it easier for them to follow the rules. Face it kiddliewinks--Christianity is a dumbed down version of the then verity of Judaism. Jesus WAS A JEW. Christians were CREATED out of whole cloth MUCH later. Yeah, go on and bash me. HISTORY, it is VERY apparent, means nothing to you.

Windstrings, quote all of the New Testament to me you care to. Can you say "PROPAGANDA?"

Loveit and Windstrings--give me OLD Testament quotes. New Testament is neither more or less than Public Relations.

To be a Jew--the Messiach is yet to come. And, windstrings, how do you have the chutzpah* to ask how someone else "expects" the Messiach to come? How can you denigrate another's beliefs so blatantly? Should I ask you HOW you expect "the rapture" to arrive. We expect the arrival of the Messiach much the same way you expect the arrival of the rapture. Are you that deluded that you can't figure this one out for yourself?

You, windstrings and loveit are incredibly offensive to those who do not believe as you do. This is "Christian?"

And do NOT even go anywhere near feeling sorry for me because I do not believe as you do--that makes it way worse.

You are entitled to your beliefs, as am I. If you cannot see that, which you clearly do not, I pity you. Try opening your minds. Your hearts are your concern. As long as neither impinges upon me and my ilk.

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire

*Definition of chutzpah: A Jew murders both of his parents, then throws himself on the mercy of the court because he is an orphan.

 

Loveit, try subtracting condescension from your repertoire. It really detracts from whatever credibility you might otherwise have.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rufaro @ Mar 12 2007, 08:26 AM) [snapback]404193[/snapback]</div>

I don't think other people need to change thier tone because your touchy, defensive, and get your pride offended easily?

Are you used to having people say it your way before its truth?
And say it so it doesn't offend you.

I dare say the opposite... if you are not seeking truth, you will be offended when you see it because you are going out of your way to avoid it.

You are not interested in studying truth, only that which tears it down.......

I wish you could see what makes your little world tick!

You call the bible propaganda, while its the truth and the material you reading are propaganda!... LOL!..

It was designed after the bible to discount it.

Typical liberal tactic to twist the poles....

There has always been liberal mentalities to twist truth as to not reveal the darkness so loved.

The Bible for the most part is simple letters written to other churches by certain diciples to address a problem or need, just as we are writing here.

You are say we are condedscending, but can't see the beam in your own eye?

Go back and look at your post and tell me if you are not calling us little and less than for being such foolish propaganda and obviously can't reason as well as you?

Man, it seems like most liberals just never grew up.... me me me me me me me ... its all about me and how the world revolves around me!

You accuse of being intolerant of other views and you are the most intolerant of those who believe in God.

Just because we don't cave in to your uninformed information and follow what you say, thats not being intolerant!... there is a difference!.....

Is your definition of tolerance agreeing with you, otherwise we are be "intolerant"?

If we don't agree... your still ok... even if your wrong!

But I tolerate you and your unbelief in my schools and work, do you do the same for the believer?

My credibility is not in jeaopardy against your opinion. Have ever considered if someone wants to fashion thier whole life and belief system around something, that your words are the ones that have no credibity and foundation to stand on?

History and facts are not your friend

 

Windstrings, unlike you, I made no personal attack. I stated a truth. As I see it. My truths are less valid than yours because they don't match yours?

I don't ask for loveit to change his/her "tone" for my benefit. I ask that loveit address others as equals. I will acknowledge that I didn't phrase it as delicately as I could have.

Please don't offer me or anyone else who fails to share your beliefs your pity, you and loveit, that attitude your posts make clear you feel. That, my friends is, indeed condescension. I accept your truths as valid for you. Kindly do me and others with whom you disagree the courtesy of doing as much.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Or believe it. Can you honestly say the same? (Please see my sig for quotation attribution.)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 12 2007, 11:43 AM) [snapback]404196[/snapback]</div>

:blink:

that says it all...

 

Rufaro, no, as Windstrings says, I am only telling from my OWN experience and those that I associate with.

I am not trying to be patronizing. I am speaking truth.

You say, you will defend my right to say whatever, but yet you do not.

We can, however, agree to disagree.

But when I say that I speak the truth, it's from my personal relationships with these people. Nothing more, nothing less.

Otherwise, you are calling me a liar.

 

What windstrings considers "Truth" is completely different than what Websters Dictionary calls it.

I mean, ask a child if Santa Claus is real.. He will swear up in down that Santa is real and that is the truth!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 12 2007, 11:16 AM) [snapback]404268[/snapback]</div>

:lol:

 

Windstrings, you seem ripe with contradictions. On the one hand you state that we're only to engage in giving acts if God dictates. On the other, you insist that God has instilled upon us free will and that he has removed himself of any judgment of us. Then you state that if we don't use this free will to act in accordance with his requirements during our lives, that he'll condemn us to hell for the hereafter. I'm so confused!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Mar 12 2007, 01:27 PM) [snapback]404273[/snapback]</div>

Oh Ssimon...you're just itching for another mile-long post, fraught with scripture that in no way, shape, or form makes any sense to anyone. Or is in the least bit germane to the topic.

Didja have to explain that you were confused? You're about to be even more so!

Watch out...here it comes any minute now...DUCK!!!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 12 2007, 01:44 PM) [snapback]404283[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ Mar 12 2007, 10:37 AM) [snapback]404244[/snapback]</div>

You are speaking YOUR truth, not mine. The manner in which you choose to do so is, as I said, condescending (my word--yours is different). The way I understand either word is how one addresses one who is somehow "less than." Like how some address those whom they regard as less educated than themselves.

Please forbear from feeling sorry for me and those who believe as I do. It is insulting to our intelligence.

I have not EVER said you CANNOT or SHOULD NOT express your views. It is the tone with which you express those views that I take exception. "These people?" By which do you mean those with whose beliefs perhaps differ somewhat with yours? Or, perhaps more specifically, SOME Jews...like those of us who aren't Christian...even more specifically, Christian as per your definition? Sorry, but I can't help but detect the veriest hint of antisemitism wafting through the ether here. I AM a completed Jew. And I am awaiting the Messiach.

You have chosen to address me as one who is hopelessly damned. I don't agree with you. How does that make me call you a liar? You belittle my beliefs and I am in the wrong?

I must say, I see that you have an incredibly interesting take on our exchange.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rufaro @ Mar 12 2007, 04:46 PM) [snapback]404328[/snapback]</div>

This "I'm right and everybody else is wrong" thing seems typical of most religions I've looked at. I don't know how to resolve it, and I'm not sure how to reconcile freedom of religion and reality.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Mar 12 2007, 02:04 PM) [snapback]404340[/snapback]</div>

Doesn't stop with religion.

 

Hey.. I had heard from someone that this Tooth Fairy comes along and


will exchange my teeth for MONEY! How cool is that? I didn't really


believe it at first, but when I went to bed all excited about it - and I swear I could feel the TOoth Fairies presense.. It MIGHT have been from be being so hyped up but you know.. if someone said its true than


that feeling I got must have been from the Tooth Fairy.

I woke up in the morning and I had a dollar bill instead of a tooth under my pillow. HOLY SMOKES! THE TOOTH FAIRY IS REAL. This is the


TRUTH because I know it to be so! I felt it! If you think that the tooth fairy doesn't exist, you are obviously BLIND to the awesome dollar for teeth exchanging ways of the tooth fairy.

So, since I believe that the tooth fairy is real and I felt like I had an

experience that could only be explained by coming into contact with the

Tooth Fairy.. then IT MUST BE THE TOOTH FAIRY. If you don't believe

in the tooth fairy YOU'RE WRONG! Even though there is no real

evidence to prove otherwise, because I felt something that I consider

magical, then IT IS THE TRUTH!

FEAR MY TRUTH!


I found this BOok about Tooth Fairies.. It was written over 2000 years

ago, it's been translated about 3 times (or more), and has been edited

and chopped up by a bunch of monks. Those monks, I heard they

might have had an agenda when writing the Tooth Fairy book, but so

what? This book says it is true so it is the TRUTH!!! If you can't see the

TRUTH then you are just blind!

If you don't see this TRUTH here.. this unquestionable TRUTH that the

Tooth Fairy exists.. then wow, just wow.


The Tooth Fairy talks to me. She tells me that I should spread the word


of the TOoth Fairy and that I should JUDGE and CONDEMN those that don't believe in her.

ITS THE TRUTH!!!! YOU JUST DONT SEE THE TRUTH! _I_ SEE THE TRUTH.

TRUTH. TRUTH. TRUTH. TRUTH. TRUTH. TRUTH. TRUTH. TRUTH. TRUTH. TRUTH. TRUTH. TRUTH. TRUTH.

Oh yeah, Santa Claus! I almost forgot about the Claus. He's a good

guy. If you've never seen him then you're just blind. He is on the news

every year with a sleigh being pulled by magical reindeers.

See here is the TRUTH right here:


Magical Fairy Guy drunk on ergot and tripping on mushrooms: 16:31.2:

"And I said unto ye, the Tooth Fairy is REAL and those who do not believe will be made to torment with her forever!"


Village Drunkard whose uncles cousins neice saw the Tooth Fairy in

Action: 19:42.9:

"Ye who do not accepteth the Tooth Fairy as your Teeths final resting
place and savior shall be stoned and quartered in front of other non-

believers"

Woman who claims to had not had sex but got pregnant from God: 23:19.3:
"This is the TRUTH, for really reals.. its the TRUTH, The Tooth Fairy

created your teeth and will take them away! If you don't give her 10% of your money for your teeth then you will lose all of your teeth..!"

Child from Wisconsin waiting for his Presents on Christmas: 34:11.4:

"Santa Claus is for freakin reall.. because I was told so. If you don't




believe this TRUTH then you are so wrong. I've never seen Santa, but I

get this feeling that can't be explained anyway else (at least not by my

feable uneducated mind) that I get when Santa comes around. I have

this feeling that he is around and if I am good he will be presents!!

WOW!! Now, if you don't BELIEVETHIS TRUTH WELL SANTA AINT



GIVING YOU SQUAT!"


PHEER THE TOOTH FAIRY AND SANTA. MY TRUTH IS THE ONLY TRUTH.. even though I can't REALLY prove


it.. see.. its just written in this book. AND IF YOU DONT BELIEVE IT THEN I WILL TREAT YOU AS A LESSER




PERSON AND REMIND YOU EVERY CHANCE I GET HOW WRONG AND BLIND AND STUPID YOU ARE. I WILL




INSULT YOUR INTELLIGENCE AT EVERY CORNER AND ANSWER EVERY QUESTION WITH A PARABLE. I WILL


CRITISIZE OUR WORLDS GREATEST PHILOSOPHERS AND ALL OTHER OF THE WORLDS BELIEFS SYSTEMS


BECAUSE THEY DIDNT SEE THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT THE TOOTH FAIRY AND SANTA CLAUS.



--- is that windstrings-ish enough?