Down to the Rapture

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Mar 6 2007, 03:42 PM) [snapback]401114[/snapback]</div>

uh oh... :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 6 2007, 12:46 PM) [snapback]401012[/snapback]</div>

When you arrange your life to conform to a certain teaching or ideal, you are worshipping.

http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Buddhism/footsteps.htm

What is the worship hall and the temples for?... who are what are they worshipping and wasting thier time on?
what are the repercussions for "ignoring" that worship?

You really want your cake and eat it too.... you don't even know what you follow, yet you want to be part of the club.
You are so the confused one, my child.....

http://beifan.com/025bud/25buddha-worship.html

http://www.buddhanet.net/ans6.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/bu...worship_1.shtml

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 6 2007, 04:16 PM) [snapback]401173[/snapback]</div>

I readily admitted that I am not a Buddhist. I study, I learn, but I am not worthy of that moniker. One day, I may be ready, but until then, I'll continue to attempt to follow their tenets. (None of which, mind you, controvert ANYTHING in your religion.)

Your definition of worship is not my definition of worship. Splitting hairs. By your definition of worship, I also worship several authors, philosophers, and yes, Christ. And Muhammed. I don't feel that I do, though.

I do admit to worshipping Ryan Reynolds. That man makes me warm. Hence, why I have trouble being a Buddhist.

EDITED: This is a joke, btw. I don't actually worship Ryan Reynolds. Much.

 

We don't worship Buddha, or any other "Idol" or "God". I'm not sure how to make that any more clear to you. There may be a statue or symbolic image in which helps us focus on where our mind needs to be, but in no way are we worshipping. Perhaps some are paying homage to the Buddha and thanking him for his wisdom. But we don't WORSHIP.. There is no "repurcussion" as you put it - as we do not practice a fear-based religion. We do good unto others as basically, what comes around - goes around.

Meditation is, what I consider, self improvement.

Praising Buddha, and worshipping him are two entirely different things.

The Temples are used for gathering and talking about Buddhism, and for MEDITATION. It is hardly a waste of time, as you put it.

It's apparent you did a search of "Buddhist Worship" and pasted a few of the results.. not really sure what your point is - other than, once again, to degrade or condemn those that walk differently than you.

I know exactly what it is that we follow. It is you that has no clue, what-so-ever. It's funny, see.. as I am a product of Christian/Catholic School Education. I am well versed in both the Old and New Testaments. I've spent nearly a decade in these schools, studying, talking about, and practicing Christianity. I've also spent many years studying the works of The Buddha.

You have obviously not studied Buddhism.. at all. So, please, quit critizing that which you do not understand. If you could like to talk about it then we shall, but, the condesending attitude isn't necessary. It isn't very Christ-like at all, is it?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 6 2007, 03:37 PM) [snapback]401196[/snapback]</div>

Well I guess you got me on that one.. praise is horizonal to everyone around you exalting a person or idea or "god"...

Worship is vertical to an audience of "one"....

Since there is no one to worship apparently.... horizontal will do just fine as it goes into thin air!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 6 2007, 03:24 PM) [snapback]401187[/snapback]</div>

Thats another key difference... you have to "get worthy... as if you create something out of nothing that you don't have"..... all works oriented before you can ever arrive at "nirvana"..

Christianity is relationship oriented.... He "makes" you worthy by giving you the free gift of repentance and forgiveness.....

Anytime we "work" to get something... we can take the credit and the glory.....

This is far far too high to obtain by our actions on this tiny grain of dust of a planet.

 

Worth isn't what it is about. It is understanding, compassion, love, and good will.

Things I'm sure almost every religion can agree upon.

 

Yes, you can do all that, but that is doing a lot of introspection; and it is still worship.

Especially if God is not first place in your life.

Man can never do what is right by his nature alone.

A while back I asked you what you would do if someone attacked your child, and you said a number of different things. All of which are "violent" according to the beliefs of Buddhism.

You will never find what you are looking for there in Buddhism, Livelychick.

You will not find peace there.

Why do you think that Jesus is called the Prince of Peace? Because He is peace.

And, contrary to what you might think, don't be deceived by the teachings of Buddha.

Evidently there is worship, and the belief of reincarnation.

Are you working so hard to be reincarnated? To come back in another life form?

That just will not happen.

And say just for example, how do you know that you will not come back as "a hellian" or a "hungry ghost" or an animal?

But just as strange, suppose it wasn't what you wanted to be?

No, Our God is not like that. We live life once, die, and then the judgment.

He is God and He not only makes all the rules, He follows them too.

He said He would take care of us, and show us not only how to live the way He expects us to, but He would give us the POWER to do so, and that is THE HOLY SPIRIT, God's very own spirit living inside of us.

You will never be satisfied with Buddha's teachings because you will find that you can never keep them.

And then there will always be that nagging feeling that you can't just quite reach "nirvana".

Then as you come to the end of your life and say,"I've done everything possible, but still didn't achieve enlightenment or nirvana."

And you will be sorely disappointed because you will have wasted your life trying to be or reach something God never intended for you to be.

It would be like trying to put a square block into a round hole, it won't fit.

Livelychick, please, please remember the Words of the Lord which both Windstrings and I have put on this thread so that when the time comes and you are ready to quit Buddhism, that you will remember the Way of the Lord, (Jesus), and return to the Him.

Just think about it and put it on the back burner in your mind.

Remember, today is the day of salvation.

You can only be "born again" or "made new" in your spirit, (to have God's spirit living in you), while you are still alive on the face of this earth, not after you die.


The plan was the death of His Son on the cross. That was the payment for our sin.

The only thing man had to do was just say, "Lord, I am a sinner. I ask you to forgive all of my sins, and Lord Jesus please come into my heart today and give me the power of the Holy Spirit to live my life as You would have me do according to your Word."

It's that simple.

Desynch, no, not all religions agree on that, Especially when you read the book of the Koran.

 

....Wow..

Just wow.

The whole goal is not NOT be reincarnated.. Please, do not spew ignorance and disinformation.

 

Desynch, I disagree with you, it is NOT DISINFORMATION, and it's very far from being ignorant.

If you look at the links which Windstrings has posted, and I have, all of them, it will tell you otherwise.

There are several different aspects of Buddhism, and they do believe in reincarnation as well as nirvana.

I will say the same to you as I did Livelychick.

I hope that you won't come to the end of your life one day and then realize that you have been misled.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ Mar 6 2007, 08:04 PM) [snapback]401265[/snapback]</div>

Reincarnation and Nirvana are aspects that almost every sect of Buddhism believes in. I cannot think of any that do not believe in this.

No one ever said likewise.

I'm pretty sure livelychick and I don't need you, or windstrings, to tell us how to lead our lives. Thanks though, we appreciate your concern.

"Buddhists vary between 230 and 500 million, with most around 350 million." However, estimates are uncertain for several countries. According to one analysis[6], Buddhism is the fifth-largest religion in the world behind Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and traditional Chinese religion. The monks' order (Sangha), which began during the lifetime of the Buddha in India, is amongst the oldest organizations on earth."

The 500 other million of us don't really need your fear-mongering either.. We don't seek your approval or blessings. It would be nice to receive a friendly nod instead of an angry shaking fist, but alas, the world turns.

We tend to think of others, no matter their belief/religion, as human. The same as us.. We don't like to classify.. Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Mormon.. We just have an understanding that we are all seeking the same thing. Release from Suffering. Nirvana. Heaven. Enlightenment.. Whatever you want to call it. We're all the same.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 6 2007, 05:14 PM) [snapback]401249[/snapback]</div>

I know what your trying to say, so I'm not disagreeing with you.. just showing another point..... in that trying to create yourself worthy by works is not what its all about, but love etc...

This is why Jesus said if you do this you will fullfill the whole law.... in that you love the Lord your God with all your heart and love others as you would be loved.

The Bible also makes it clear, all things are lawfull now, but you don't have a license to sin.
(1 Cor 9:27 NKJV) But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

When you sin, you are "serving it" as a master. It controls you and you bend to its will.... even though you would rather do something else.

(Rom 6:6 NKJV) knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
(Rom 6:7 NKJV) For he who has died has been freed from sin.
(Rom 6:8 NKJV) Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,

Only by taking God name and his presence and anyone live "above" sin. yes, we will still be in this flesh and everything will not be perfect, but we will be guided by and walk in the joy of the Lord and our sins will be forgiven... we will have "power" not to sin and be its slave anymore!!!!!

Some people think all this grace is a license to sin.

(Heb 10:26 NKJV) For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
(Heb 10:27 NKJV) but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

But as long as we are under his covering, its all about being worthy... otherwise you cannot approach him...
But the big key is that "he" makes you worthy...not you.

His sacrifice for sins by the shedding of his blood is the atonement that covers your sins.
Not by works..
(Eph 2:8 NKJV) For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
(Eph 2:9 NKJV) not of works, lest anyone should boast.
(Eph 2:10 NKJV) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

If you have a son or daughter, they are "worthy" to approach you and sit on your lap without asking because of your relationship to them.. they are your offspring and God is your Father.
Likewise, when you are born of his spirit, a new creation is started birthed of God which puts you into his family with instant abilities to hear, feel, and know him... before then, we are blind to his world.

There are many sad sorry, stinkin mishaps that happen to us because of the sin thats around us.

All of creation is protected in measure so that they may have opportunity to accept him.

When mishaps happen, and you are a child of God.. he causes both good and bad to work for your good.
Many times he removes you from the harm.. just like a good father, then other times he goes through it with you.. "just like a good father", but he "never" leaves you!!!

Live is not worth living without knowing Jesus and the Father.
I really don't know how people do it!
I've walked with the Lord long enough now that I have gotten really spoiled and have grown accustomed to his presence.
I don't even pray for allot of things because I just know its there.... just like he told us to not consider our ways as the lilies in the field do not have to toil and worry about tomorrow!

Its wonderful knowing God.

Everyone that really knows God is trying to show others because of the joy and peace they have found.
Christians that do it out of obligation to draw more into the kingdom or impress somebody have not yet matured into a Son in thier walk, but still operates like a servant. "thats a whole nother teaching!".
Just like your baby boy does not operate like a son until he takes the responsibility of the your kingdom upon himself to maintain out of love, rather than obedience.

And there is a few sorry souls that only do it to generate more capitol for the church.. they preach only evangelical sermons to draw more in, rather than feeding the ones they already have with mature meat instead of milk all the time. They will account to God for how they handle his sheep.

Do you serve God as doing your chores?...
Or do you serve him because you are compelled to out of love and it hurts you if you don't?

I'm not trying to throw guilt.. because you can't do the second choice unless the Holy Spirit in you births it and grows it to maturity... its literally learning how to let the love of Christ flow through you!

An apple tree never has to "grunt" to crank out apples.. it just happens naturally!...
Even so the fruits of the spirit are easy and happen spontanously sometimes without the Christian even realizing it until its produced!

Have you ever said something nasty and it popped out before you realized it?
Same for good when God's Holy Spirit is in control in your life.

From the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks...

So if you want good things to come out of your heart and your mouth, you must have something good in it first! An evil tree cannot produce good fruit!!!! simple as that.. you can dress it up and cover it, but its still evil.
Only being covered with the blood of Jesus removes all sins.

Living for God is not walking the line with God waiting for you to mess up... its simply RPJ.. "Righteousness, Peace and Joy!
You don't have to fake it and you don't have to make it happen.. it just happens!

Your only job is to love God and maintain a relationship with him!.. He does the rest if you just surrender and quit fighting him!!!!!

(Micah 6:8 NKJV) He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God?

The Lord teaches you, is your comforter, your guide, your friend to talk to.

The only catch is you have to keep your spirit open as to not grieve his Holy Spirit which tends to kill fellowship.
When that happens, he is always quick to forgive.

 

I'm sure your Biblical Scriptures are of value, but in all honesty, they mean nothing to me.

I do not follow the path that which Jesus Christ of Nazareth has laid out. My path was laid out by Siddhartha Gautama.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 6 2007, 09:30 PM) [snapback]401378[/snapback]</div>

So your a buddist..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha

Thats your choice..but I have to ask one question.... what is the benifit?

What benfit is it in this life and what benifit is it in the life hereafter?

And do you have any proof of any type at all of the hereafter benifits from any persons who came close to death.

To whom do the angels belong that so many have seen throughout history?

Who has authority over devils?.. do you deny them too?.. have you read much history?

Are you alone and empty?.. what relief or solution in this life or the life to come does your religion hold?

Why do you adhere to it yourself?.. have you seen anyone who has prospered?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 7 2007, 01:02 AM) [snapback]401409[/snapback]</div>

I know, I know...I edited. But I had to, to get to the point:

Do you have any proof of the hereafter?

Any? Besides what you may have interpreted from the Bible, do you have any proof?

Any physical proof of heaven? Of hell?

I don't. I'm not asking about if you believe in heaven or hell. I'm asking if you have any proof.


See, you don't. And that's okay. But you can't say that what works for others, and does not work for you, is wrong, based on a lack of evidence. For we, as followers of Christ, don't have physical evidence either.


Faith works on all sides of the street. Faith in Buddha, or God, is based on what one feels, what one believes, what one thinks is correct.

We are all but single minded individuals, which have the capacity to feel, to love, to hurt, to rejoice. And in whom we put our faith, or none at all, is up to each individual. Not you, Alan, or me.

The best way to persuade someone you are correct, is to not persuade them at all.


borrowed from the Hung-chih

Empty yet aware, the original light shines spontaneously; tranquil yet responsive, the great function manifests. A wooden horse neighing in the wind does not walk the steps of the present moment; a clay ox emerging from the sea plows the springtime of the eon of emptiness.

Understand? Where a jade man beckons, even greater marvel is on the way back.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 6 2007, 02:35 PM) [snapback]400949[/snapback]</div>

First, show some respect to other's beliefs, and the name of the one they are believing in: Spell the name right.

Not 'Budda', it's Buddha.


Second: Buddha to many, is as real as Jesus ever was. More so, in fact. So what? What if when you die, and you get to heaven, Buddha is there along side Christ? What would you do then? Stomp your feet, and curse the sky? Be mad? What?


Alan, no one knows the whole truth, 100% of it, not one person alive today. You can be 99% sure, and feel like it's 100%, but in truth, you can't be truly 100% sure. Faith fills the gap, in whatever you believe in. It's the glue that holds it all together.

I give you an example: I love Coke zero. I do. I am, for all my life, a Coke man. However, I do also like diet Pepsi Jazz. I am not a Pepsi man, at all, but I like diet Pepsi Jazz. I can appreciate the flavor, without giving up on Coke.

I may think Coke is it, but for some, Pepsi is it. And some still, don't want either; they prefer Dr. Pepper.

Or nothing but water. Do you get the point? You can love Christ, and feel He is the One, but you can learn from Buddha, and why not? Doesn't mean you have to give up on your love of Christ. No one is saying you have to 'worship' Buddha to gain insight...they who follow, or learn from him, don't worship him...I find him fascinating.

Or you can have neither. And still gain insight from both.

I may be confusing you, but it's my Dead Horse Of The Night: Tolerance. It's a Two Way Street.

Until you get to where you are going, you can't be 100% sure what you will find there. I, for one, would imagine that Hitler is not in heaven; however, I have heard the argument, that he may have accepted Christ before he died, and is there.

Will I be surprised? Don't know. But I have a feeling, I won't care either way. I won't care if I was right or wrong while here.

It's just going to be awesome, that's all, IMHO, of course.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 6 2007, 02:46 PM) [snapback]400961[/snapback]</div>

The man walked up to the child with a string in his hands.

The man asked the child, 'Why do you hold a string?'

The child looked at the man, and said simply, 'I am waiting for the kite to attach itself to the string.'


The man was stunned. Silently, he sat down next to the boy. The boy asked him, 'Why are you sitting?'

And the man said, 'I learned it is wise to sit at the feet of the teacher.'

===========


I just made that up. However, I made it up from studying Zen, and Buddha, and many eastern religions and philosophies.

My point is, sometimes there are Christians, like myself, who do not go down the easy path, and tend to enjoy the path less traveled by. For that will make all the difference.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 6 2007, 03:46 PM) [snapback]401012[/snapback]</div>

Not entirely correct. There are Jews for Jesus. And when you get right down to it, we all who follow Christ, Yeshua, are Jews.

Not 'Christians', really, but Jews. For it was the Jewish faith that believed a Saviour would be born, and deliver them.

Frankly, there are no 'real' Jews today, at least in the sense, that they don't sacrifice animals, and cleanse themselves, in the ways of the Torah, the Old Testament. Even the Jews on South Beach, who wear the dark clothes, and strings, don't sacrifice in the temple. The Temple, the Holy Of Hollies, has not been around in centuries. And that place was in the Middle East.

Jews today, are quite removed from those activities. And the argument could be made, that 'Christians' aren't at all, since Christ did not name them, nor did he say that they should be 'Christians'.


And to further this, if one wants, those who follow Christ, often don't do as He preached.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ Mar 6 2007, 08:18 PM) [snapback]401250[/snapback]</div>

Hold the phone, loveitoomuchyougotitwrongagain, God does not follow the rules, at all.

He has killed. Millions. Or what do you call all those people He killed in the flood of Noah? He murdered them, by drowning them. That is killing.

So that is breaking a rule: Thou shall not murder.


God makes the rules, then breaks them, then says, 'I am God, and you're not', sounding suspiciously like Chevy Chase.

 

God is God and He is still supreme.

If it were not for at least one righteous person, none of us, neither myself, nor you, would be here today.

And as far as Jews are concerned, yes, you are right. They are called "Completed Jews" and there are many of them the world over.

One day the Holy Temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and when it is all hell will break loose, literally; but it won't happen until THE PEACE TREATY is signed which will allow for the rebuilding of the temple.

When that happens, the peace treaty will be broken and the man of lawlessness will set himself up in the temple claiming to be God, Himself.

I just trust and pray that I will not be around when that happens; and I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

But yes, the sacrifice of animals will begin once again after the temple has been built. Morning, noon, and evening sacrifices.

BUT YOU ARE WRONG. There are real Jews, and these will be the ones that will do the sacrifices. As a matter of fact, there are a number of Jews who can trace their lineage, and that will be another reason for just the tribe of Aaron being the line of priesthood, for only they will be allowed to do the sacrificing.

The reason for the sacrifices is that the Jews recognized that there must be payment for their sins which can only take place by the shedding of blood. Hence the reason for the sacrifices.

Many of the elements of the temple, and the utensils which are a part of worship and sacrifice have not only been designed but made for this day

For the Jew, there is only one place to worship: Jerusalsm.

It is God's footstool.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Mar 7 2007, 12:57 AM) [snapback]401493[/snapback]</div>

While Faith is indeed the main entrance into the kingdom, God does give us glimpses of it... first of all, he said it was not meat and drink...
(Rom 14:17 NKJV) for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

And while he also say.. I prepare you a place or a habitation... we have to remember we are spiritual beings.

When we die, we will take on our glorified bodies that don't have the limitations our physical ones do... no pain, not limited to space and possibly time and can pass through matter and Jesus did when he was glorified "yet you could still feel him!" as well as the angels.

But we get glimpses of physical proof by angelic visitations as well as demonic visitations "which are more common" as they are getting cast out, they will sometimes manifest in an attempt to intimdate you.

We see the power over physical sicknesses and broken limbs and organs.

Jesus compared his power to the wind... you can't see it, but you can see its effects.

(John 3:6 NKJV) "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(John 3:7 NKJV) "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
(John 3:8 NKJV) "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
(John 3:9 NKJV) Nicodemus answered and said to Him, "How can these things be?"

Thats what I"ve been trying to say.. I don't see any demons or any physical properties or sicknesses or anything bowing under the power of buddah or that mystic power he followed.. Its all a lie!!!!

One thing if for sure though, you ever you follow better be your creator... He is the only one that deserves your praise and worship.
Thats why Jesus said if anyone tries to copy and mimic or do any such thing to enter the kingdom and do it by going around him "Jesus", he is the same as a thief and a robber. Because Jesus is the only one worthy to have your soul... not only is the Father the creator of it, Jesus died to release you from your sins.
No other entity has paid that price.. its already done for all who will accept it.

(John 10:1 NKJV) "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
(John 10:2 NKJV) "But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
(John 10:3 NKJV) "To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
(John 10:4 NKJV) "And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.
(John 10:5 NKJV) "Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers."

When your invisible religion and God can affect physical properties.. that gives the unbeliever "proof" of his existence... being called signs and wonders and miracles.

Blessed is he who believes without having to have that... but thank God its there too!

You you guys seem persistent like those of the old testament.. the Lord gives you the best fruit and wonderful benifits and blessings, but you want the flesh of Egypt instead.... so is flesh.

This is by no means a hard decision.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Mar 5 2007, 03:22 AM) [snapback]400225[/snapback]</div>

You are guessing that about D, perhaps because he believes in stuff like two people of the same gender, in the same kind of committed relationship I have with my husband, should have the same legal rights as my partner/husband/significant other/lover have? I believe in all of those things, and I'm not a closet lesbian who only got married for the benefits, legal or otherwise. How can you consider such intolerance and disrespect for other people a good thing?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 6 2007, 12:36 PM) [snapback]401100[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Mar 6 2007, 12:42 PM) [snapback]401114[/snapback]</div>

Abu al-Zarqawi died and George Washington met him at the Pearly Gates. He slapped him across the face and yelled, "How dare you try to destroy the nation I helped conceive!"

Patrick Henry approached, punched him in the nose and shouted, "You wanted to end our liberties but you failed!"

James Madison followed, kicked him in the groin and said, "This is why I allowed our government to provide for the common defense!"

Thomas Jefferson was next, beat al-Zarqawi with a long cane and snarled "It was Evil men like you who inspired me to write the Declaration of Independence."

The beatings and thrashings continued as George Mason, James Monroe and 66 other early Americans unleashed their anger on the terrorist Leader.

As al-Zarqawi lay bleeding and in pain, an Angel appeared. Al- Zarqawi wept and said, "This is not what you promised me."

The Angel replied, "I told you there would be 72 Virginians waiting for you in Heaven. What did you think I said?"
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Mar 6 2007, 11:56 PM) [snapback]401506[/snapback]</div>

I'm Jewish. Jesus is certainly considered as a prophet in Jewish writings, NOT the Messiach; most Jews do not consider that Jews for Jesus ARE Jewish...Three Jews, four opinions...

loveit...my problem is not with your belief in god...it is in your belief that one must accept Jesus a the Messiah in order to have it count. In other words, I read your message as "If you are not a Christian, you must be worshiping false idols and burn in eternal hellfire and damnation.