Down to the Rapture

Ditto

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Mar 2 2007, 10:11 AM) [snapback]399076[/snapback]</div>

Your right... the details were never discussed, but I was taking him at his word that he was really offended and hurt by thier lack to reach him.


It's true, we all mature over time and its quite dicy trying to reach someone who is imflammtory, disrespectful, lying, and being totally unreasonable.


The Church embraces those who attempts to draw close to God.. they don't have to be perfect.

But when someone is playing thier own game and unrepentant, the church takes the same stand God takes.

God also resists the proud and gives them over to thier own way so that the devil can work them over a while till they hopefully come to thier senses.


Now that I"m older.. I see how good my Dad treated me when I was young.. all the sacrifices he made at his own expense of time and energy.. but when I was living it.. I thought I was mistreated and that the world should revolve around me.


TJ surely understands now that if he behaved towards them as he did earlier in these discussions, they most likely would not have played his game... and they shouldn't.

I know there was "lots" of times I almost just walked away and considered it hopeless, but something kept drawing me back. Fortunately, I obeyed that voice rather than clinging to my own understanding.


But in TJ's mind.. they "owed" him that... as an angry son who had been wronged and defiled by his dad.. TJ was angry at how his faith and trust had been misused and perverted.


TJ.. I don't mean to be speaking for you.. its just the way I read the whole thing and I reacted based to you based on that read.

Most people are reasonable if given the opportunity.... but out here in "web land".. there are many deep deep cuts, wounds and scars that we cannot see that fuel much of the frustrated feelings that God must not exist.


TJ, if you were being "unlovable", and ven if the reason was legitimate..... it may have been more than they understood how to handle.. after all, they are just people.... but if you were being "personable" that different.

Its not real often someone can act like a raving lunatik and a brat and not get a negative response.

I'm assuming you were telling the truth when you told the story about the Father on his death bed condemning you because you left the faith that was his only shred of redeeming virtue that he was trying to hold to.

In his mind... either you were to be condemned, or he was because you were justified in leaving....


Rather than facing the truth and running " to" God for mercy and forgiveness.. it sounds like he stood in his blinding pride and believed all the sad suckers who were visiting him telling him how noble and what a wonderful person he was.


Bottom line.. the heart is desperately wicked and who can know it????


God is the only salvation from such wickedness.... but many clergy are just as they were in Jesus's day.. they pray long prayers in the presence of other men and wear their long fancy robes to appear better than and somehow holy, while inside they are as the white statues.. full of dead mens bones.


Even back then, it was no different. Jesus was the only truth then and he is the only truth now.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 2 2007, 10:46 AM) [snapback]399109[/snapback]</div>

Right.. thats what I supposed an I mentioned that suspicion. Thats the way the Buddist refer to non-human entites.


I already know I"m stinkin black without Jesus.. now I'm just trying to get you to admit you are so you will have hope of being saved!... LOL!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Mar 2 2007, 01:56 PM) [snapback]399113[/snapback]</div>

Now that, that I like. I love when churches do that. Calvary Chapel, a local 'mega' church, does that, and they have millions come in every month. And they do not have a membership either; they just know that they get close to 20,000 to 30,000 people in every week. And I go there, from time to time, when I am not helping out at other local churches; I like to get 'lost in the crowd', so to speak. It's good to not have to 'work' on Sundays, from time to time.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 2 2007, 08:43 PM) [snapback]399319[/snapback]</div>

Not quite sure what you mean here, Allan, but I'll take a stab...no, wait, maybe I'll give you some time to explain what you mean. On the other hand, I can talk about this:

Father Reuhl? Oh yeah, I was not kidding about what he did to me. Not only did he 'rub me the wrong way' (figuratively as well as physically) ,he was a drunk. Once passed out on the altar. I was a altar boy. I stood there, the other altar boy stood there; we had no idea what to do. Finally, I walked up and said, 'Father has taken ill', and the two of us dragged him off. Not a pretty sight.

I felt anger towards him, for years, yes, as to what he did to me. But I forgave him. I have not forgotten, what happened. And the incident at the Assembly church? I was turned away because I did not want to do something that was not (horrors!), Biblical. And they turned me away. I have forgiven them.

One Pastor there, who took what I had told him, (under the office of him being a counselor, and me be the one counseled), he took what I had told him, in confidence, and spread it around; I forgave him. BUT I HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN. Nor will I.

I hold leaders of churches to a higher standard, not just because they are the leaders, but because others look up to them. That is why I am honest about my feelings about the Bible. I am a Pastor, but I don't want anyone to follow me blindly. I would prefer folks know me, sins and all.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Mar 3 2007, 02:02 AM) [snapback]399434[/snapback]</div>

Well the scary thing is "so Does God" hold clergy to a higher standard.

Anytime a person represents God's voice, or acts as a teacher, or claims to..... they are held to a more critical standard before God.

(James 3:1 NKJV) My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.

I'm not sure what you we're sure about TJ, but my heart does go out to you....it sounds like you were totally innocent at the time as I put all the responsibility, leadership, mentoring and "Fathering" on the priest and I hold you innocent... I feel God would too... but thats in the past and so are the sins hopefully, but the memories still have a bite if total deliverance has not happened... sometimes it really hard to tell.... those feeling lie deep.

There are still times when in deep prayer, the Lord will dig down in my heart and dig up stuff and memories from my childhood I totally forgot about... but now realize they still form and fashion my viewpoints and feelings, even though I thought I wasn't affected by them anymore.

I encourage you to seek out folks that seem to obviously have "life" in their life... you can sense the joy in thier life.
Joy comes from living right.... I didn't say happyness... that different.
(Psa 45:7 NKJV) You love righteousness and hate wickedness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.

(Heb 1:9 NKJV) You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions."

If my Dad was to die.. I would be extremely sad "not happy", but I could still have joy in all of that.. Joy emenates from the Spirit and Soul, whereas Happyness is in the mind.
If someone told me I won the lottery.. I would be very happy!

The Joy of the Lord can carry us through anything... even in sadness, his love and comfort can be felt.
God's comfort is so overwhelming that it causes anything thats happened in the past to only be a platform to be stronger and will cause you to have compassion on others in the same areas.

 

So true Windstrings. Amen!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 2 2007, 07:43 PM) [snapback]399319[/snapback]</div>

A sentient being is what I consider something that experiences pain and tries to get away from it.. something that has the ability to try to avoid suffering.

It is nice that you try to help me, but we walk different paths. Your concern is admirable, Bodhisattva's spend their lives trying to help people achieve nirvana. You spend your life trying to spread the word of Jesus. Very admirable.

 

I took an 8 hour trip today.. me and the wife and while on the road, I felt I really heard some thoughts from the Lord.

Sometimes its easy to know when thoughts are from God because they come in and are foreign to your own, but have a warm peaceful strength about them that lets you know who they came from..

Without getting all mushy and being specific and risking people freaking out because they don't understand..... suffice it enough to say.. I really Feel the Lords Loves Some of the people out here "allot" and has very tender feelings towards them and is drawing them with cords of love.


Then I considered the prodical son...... its interesting how that son was the most precious to the father... not that he loved the one that was always good any less, but the one that was lost and found again was the most "precious".
I use the word to mean not so much as being more valuable, but more like "the most treasured" since he has just gotten him back, he declared a large celebration and promotion for him far above what he expected, as he was hoping for the most to just be accepted as a servant.

Then I considered a special on TV the other night where a mother seal stood on the beach with her children... must have been 12 - 15 of them as she whailed and cried as she watched a killer whale rip one of her young to shreds and flip it up in the air about 30 feet with the power of its tail to stun it and then eat it.

I think the Lord also Whails as he sees the enemy devour those he loves but can't reach them because of their sin and bitterness that keeps them from turning to him for help.

The lord will pursue us to our grave... his longsuffering and patience blows me away...... then when he finds us and we expect judgement, instead, we find his tenderness and lovingkindness!... Wow!...

I am honored just to witness the event.

It always amazes me how the Lord "delights" in mercy.
And is not willing that any should perish.

Mercy is usually dealt out by God when chastisement is expected.
And when the soul is so arrogant and cocky that they expect mercy as they is not repentant, then I see chastisement dealt out.

The spanking of God can be very severe and painful, but the love mixed with it brings healing.

When david sinned and the Lord gave him a choice as to how to repay his sin, he chose to fall into the hands of the Lord because he knew the hands of man would have no love and no mercy.

The worst thing that could happen to us is that God would not chastise us when we go astray.. we would be eternally lost in our arrogance.. as a bastard son who had no father... but the mere fact that God chastises us in his love when we stray, is proof of his love.

(Heb 12:7 NKJV) If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten?
(Heb 12:8 NKJV) But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.
(Heb 12:9 NKJV) Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?
(Heb 12:10 NKJV) For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness.
(Heb 12:11 NKJV) Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
(Heb 12:12 NKJV) Therefore strengthen the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees,
(Heb 12:13 NKJV) and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be dislocated, but rather be healed.

(Psa 30:5 NKJV) For His anger is but for a moment, His favor is for life; Weeping may endure for a night, But joy comes in the morning.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 3 2007, 11:48 PM) [snapback]399783[/snapback]</div>

The problem I have with the whole "nirvana" thing is that its dependent upon disciplines of the mind.. that takes years of age and maturity to walk into in any degree.....

similiar to learning how to reach depths of prayer or you may all it altered states of conciousness.. I don't know?

But its the perfect "counterfiet" that devils get to use to become "guides and idols" before God to provoke him to jealously.
The devils best power is to disquise himself as an angel of light to appear as good.
If he walked around with a red tail and horns.. his following would be slim!

But the beautiful thing about true chrisitanity, is that a tiny child to a man ancient in years can accept and walk in it in full power.

Mentally handicapped or a genius.... its only a matter of the heart and soul..... the weakest christian is more powerful than the meanest devil because of the authority they possess. Salvation is obtained as a free gift without "works" as Jesus paid the price rather than us..

The maturity in Christ is benificial to learn the "devices" of the devil and how to fight him and how to interact and councel and teach etc others who are being led astray an increase in faith with the experiences they learn.

But I've seen children who were just saved, excercise power over devils and diseases that grown men were afraid to attempt.

The children didn't know better.. they didn't know to be afraid.. they just acted on the word in pure faith without fear and God met thier prayer of faith with power.
They had to battles that they had lost yet and so thier faith was pure.

With Christianity, our "self Perfection" only gets in the way.. because He alone is worthy... all else is a smoke screen.

Its a whole different concept....... Devils love us to try and reach altered states of conciousness to reach into thier world through mediums, drugs etc... that way they get a free ride on our authority.....

They have no interest in us other than to use us for thier own purposes.. they care "nothing" about us at all and in fact they hate us.

Anyone who follows a familiar spirit is being lead astry and is a poor sucker than doesn't know better.
The devil will tell you several truths mixed with an twisted truth and then even lie and you can't tell the difference.. he cannot be trusted as a keeper of your soul... even if he could, he doesn't have the power.


Just because they have been around for thousands of years on earth and know human nature well enough to play many like puppets.. that doesn't mean they are to be followed or seeked after for advice.

 

We're all human and are seeking a way out of suffering. We all seek the same thing, the truth. I'm glad you have found to be what you consider the Truth.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 4 2007, 02:26 AM) [snapback]399831[/snapback]</div>

Your right.. thats the one thing we all have in common... sometimes that seeking a "way out of suffering" gets really perverted at the expense of others. "if you know what I mean"

But we all are trying to help each other as in the aftermath of a hurricaine or yet still in it!
While others find a way and keep it secret... even though its the wrong way!

But God in his love, is jealous after those he loves and does not like anything that acts as a substitute or counterfiet from him.


(Phil 2:20 NKJV) For I have no one like-minded, who will sincerely care for your state.
(Phil 2:21 NKJV) For all seek their own, not the things which are of Christ Jesus.

(Rom 3:10 KJV) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
(Rom 3:11 KJV) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
(Rom 3:12 KJV) They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
(Rom 3:13 KJV) Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
(Rom 3:14 KJV) Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
(Rom 3:15 KJV) Their feet are swift to shed blood:
(Rom 3:16 KJV) Destruction and misery are in their ways:
(Rom 3:17 KJV) And the way of peace have they not known:
(Rom 3:18 KJV) There is no fear of God before their eyes.

(Mat 7:13 NKJV) "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.

(Mat 7:14 NKJV) "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

(Mat 7:15 NKJV) "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
(Mat 7:16 NKJV) "You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
(Mat 7:17 NKJV) "Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
(Mat 7:18 NKJV) "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
(Mat 7:19 NKJV) "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
(Mat 7:20 NKJV) "Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
(Mat 7:21 NKJV) "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
(Mat 7:22 NKJV) "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
(Mat 7:23 NKJV) "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' (doing their "own" thing under misguided direction, or just simply being a law unto themselves.)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 4 2007, 04:26 AM) [snapback]399831[/snapback]</div>

The problem is the truth about the natural world is objective. People can choose to believe what they want but they can not expect to be taken seriously if their "truth" has no basis in reality.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Mar 4 2007, 11:14 AM) [snapback]399912[/snapback]</div>

I agree, Truth is never realized until it becomes reality.
If I tell you the moon is 240000 miles above the earth and you see it most nights and someone tells you your living if a globe and that ti is really just man made like in "the movie the trumanshow", you never know for sure until you go there.

Then once you get there... how do you know its not a dream?.. when do you really "know" its reality?
Maybe your experience is drug induced?
Maybe your not here at all?

Just how "real" is "anything" in this physical realm?

When walking in the spirit, you soon find out that world is more real than the physical.

Things are first in the spiritual, then manifest in the physical.... not the other way around.

We all stand at a corner intersection and in the blink of an eye, a bus crashes into a motorcycle driver.
We will all have different accounts of the same event because we stand in different physical locations and out perceptive abilities to gather and interpret are all different.

When "proof" is provided in a court of law.... it is only counted if the majority in the jury also consider it proof.

Only when someone has the ability to see all angles and know all the facts are they able to accurately discern the truth.

God is the only one I know like that!

There is a level of Faith involved in accepting Gods truth, but even as a little child "or teenager for that matter" does not understand the "truth" his father teaches him until later in life... even so we are limited in our understanding and accept the "truth" of our heavenly Father.

When we see the demons bow at the authority of Jesus name, you soon realize who is boss!

For most of us who walk in it any length of time, quickly discover the benfits of walking with God and carrying his name and how it apparently its absolutes are in rhythm with the other absolutes in our environment.

Its true.. we all live in a dark glass and as we seek the truth, we tend to follow those to whom "life just seems to work out for them".

When David killed Golieth, or when Daniel was favored as his dreams came to pass... even though people didn't understand "why" it was so as it was, people still followed them as a leader because the cosmos seemed to bless thier actions.

Secular people realize there is something to blessings and cursings but can't put thier finger on it, so they invent gods.. the indians worship this mountain or the other mountain that is the sister of the first mountain etc.

Having the favor of the Lord is a mysterious thing.. it causes people to like you and want to promote you and you don't even know or witness this favor affecting them?...

Having the wrath of the Lord works in similiar fashion except in reverse of course.
The unseen spirit world behind the scenes controls the physical.

I really liked the movie "The Devils Advocate" where Al Pacino played the devil.. thats was pretty true to life!

Truth is as the creator states it is, because even with other lesser "truths" contradict and cross with it, the creators truth prevails in the end.
Why does this happen?.. because the word of the creator that goes forth has power to conform circumstances and matter into as it speaks.

To a large degree, we carry this authority when we walk in the power of Jesus name through the Holy Spirit.

Diseases and evil that seems to affect others without mercy fall under the authority of our words as we speak them an agreement with Jesus and the Fathers will.

Jesus "wants" us to have authority of diseases and evil.. thats one of the things he won when he took away the keys of death.

Sin and diseases only have power becuase of the sin around us.. it was not part of the Garden of eden.

Cancer is perfect example of evil on a cellular level.. in a place where it has no authority... set forth to invade and kill, steal, and destroy.... the devils game.

When you see a truth that overpowers the other truths, then you know which one is "the" truth.

When moses threw down his staff and it became a snake.. that was a truth that impresses and amazed all the onlookers,... then the wizards copied and did likewise.. now another truth had countered and challenged, but then when Moses snake swallowed up the other, everyone saw which truth prevails.... likewise, so is life.

Pharoh finally acknowledged that God was the only true God because his lesser gods and wizards could not overthrow the plagues of the real God.

he judged "reality" based on who had the most power to affect circumstances.

The one with the most power wins..... I don't know about you.. but I'm not into worshipping the instructions and guidlines of some dead guy........ I'm on Gods side! ... Who is alive and well!

 

can we all just come to the conclusion that different things work for different people?

you notice that most belief systems have a similar goal: by following the system, one strives to achieve peace; whether they call it heaven, the audience of god and/or jesus, nirvana, the lack of a turbulent earthly existence altogether for those who don't believe in an afterlife. and of course i'm missing quite a lot, just grabbing a few examples.

could it be that nirvana is just another city in the same state as heaven? do we really have to separate ourselves so much?

i just fail to understand all the argument about what road we take to [insert name of 'place' here].

and for the record, i don't capitalize anything. i don't even capitalize my own name on a casual-communication basis.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Mar 4 2007, 03:18 PM) [snapback]399953[/snapback]</div>

Some religions accept this. Others condemn any other belief and exclaim it to be of a false prophet, or devil. Even religions older than their own.

 

Galaxee, an enemy doesn't always want to show their face. The enemy is not always sure that they will have the upper hand when they confront their adversary, and so they hide what it is that they are planning to do, especially before attacking.

Now if someone is very cooperative with the enemy for fear of what the enemy will do to them, what do you think will happen eventually to that person? Especially, if the enemy has no intention of reconciling with said person?

The enemy will use that person for his own selfish purpose and gain until what? Until that purpose or gain has been met.

Then what happens? More than likely, the enemy could do several things: spread disinformation about said person, leave that person in a condition worse than what he/she was originally in, cast them aside and go on to the next victim, or if the said victim/person starts to talk about what they suffered at the hands of the enemy, the enemy may very well decide to kill them. Or, instead of waiting to get to the last stage, kill them right off the bat so the enemy won't have to waste time.

That is exactly what Satan and his co-horts will do. They would like for you to think that they don't exist.

These types of people, though they see, they are blind; though they hear, they are deaf.

That's why the bible says: "My people perish for a lack of knowledge."

Jesus says: "Come to me, and I will give you salve for your eyes so that you may see, (spiritually), and unplug your hears so that you may hear, (what the Holy Spirit is saying to you)."

Things that we can see with the human eye will one day pass away.

Things that we cannot see are etenal and they will last forever.

The spirit realm will last forever.

But Jesus also says: "Since you say that you see, and hear," He leaves those people just as they are.

Sometimes, people get stuck in the clay and mud, and there is no way that they can free themselves. It takes a power greater than themselves to pull them up out of the muck.

The more they try to free themselves, the deeper they sink and the harder it is to get free.

Some people when they get in such a pit like that, recognize it right away, and so call for help.

Others, are like the frog that sits in a pan of water on the stove. The frog sits there contentedly and has no intention of getting out. Then the fire is turned on underneath the pan. It gets warmer, and warmer, and the frog doesn't move. He has no clue that he is about to die. Then finally he is beyond redemption.

Sometimes, people may have to sink to the bottom of the pit before crying out for God's help.

There are people like that, for whatever reason. They have swallowed the enemies' bait, hook, sinker, and line. Then there is no turning back once a person dies, then comes the judgment.

"It is appointed unto man to live once, (and when they die),then comes the judgment."

Contrary to belief, there is no reincarnation. The devil would like for you to believe that there is. Why? Because he wants to take as many people as he can with him to hell.

If you see anything good on the face of this earth it is because of the heavenly Father. And so heaven will be all that and more.

If you don't believe in hell, take a good look around you? See anything you don't like?

If you see anything evil on the face of this earth it is because of the evil one, the devil, Satan himself. And so hell will be all that and more.

I'll say it again. When you worship God, you are inviting His presence to be a part of your life. He is a good God, merciful, kind, loving, patient, and never failing. You are inviting Him to help show you THE WAY, (Jesus is The Way) in your in your daily living.

But woe to them that worship "other gods". Not because God almighty will do you in, but the enemy, Satan, and his co-horts will do you in.

The bible says that Satan is a liar, a deceiver, and the accuser of the brethen. And he will take you down the path that will lead to "spiritual death."

The bible says: "A man's ways may seem right to him, but in the end it leads to death." (A spiritual death.)

Seriously, because if you think that you have power, that's where you are wrong. It may seem that way, but just you wait, then you will know without a doubt that you have been lied to, and then some.

So if you are sitting on the fence so to speak about your belief in something or someone else other than God Almighty, you may find yourself falling into the deep, pit full of mucky clay in which there is no escape. AND when you find out that there is someone else very evil in that pit beside you, then what will you do?

And you will be left alone to deal with them on your own until you cry out to God for the help that only He can give.

 

see, this is what i don't get. anything that opposes or is different than that belief system is attributed to the devil, or evil.

who's to say that all the gods mentioned aren't in fact the same entity?

while i don't claim to know any of the right answers, i don't claim to know who is wrong either.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Mar 4 2007, 05:54 PM) [snapback]399999[/snapback]</div>

But you know what's right. You know how old the earth is, how humans and all life evolved from common ancestors through natural selection and how unlikely the miracles described in the bible are. Should we believe that people that think the earth is 6,000 years and accept miracles as true observations have a say in today's society?

My opinion is if a delusion makes you happy go for it. But don't expect my deference to your flawed logic.

Their condescending and verbose style doesn't help their cause either.

 

Galaxee, most people don't understand it.

There is only ONE God. There are NO OTHERS.

If you think that there is more than one, better think again.

Because if you do, then it's right from the pit of hell.

In the end times many will be deceived, and will believe a delusion.
Why? Because they refused the real God many years ago and will have nothng to compare the real with the counterfeit; and so they will believe a lie.

Then it will be too late.

America is bound up in materialistic goods, and money.

If you were to go to another country where they actually worship idols, demons, that sort of stuff, you would think twice.

That's why I say, if you are sitting on a fence, you will one day have to make a decision.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Mar 4 2007, 02:45 PM) [snapback]400017[/snapback]</div>

Fine with me too, except when it leads to a large portion of the population voting an incompetent idiot into the Presidency because of his religious beliefs rather than his ability to lead, and then blindly defend his recklessness. Or when it leads to school systems abandoning the very basis of religious freedom and forcing our public school kids to be taught this nonsense. Or when it denies homosexuals the ability to marry and enjoy the legal benefits of marriage that heterosexuals have access to, and in fact actually condemns homosexuals as immoral despite overwhelming scientific evidence that they did not choose to be so and that their leanings are quite natural and by the way, are of no harm to anybody else. This kind of impact that the religious impose on the rest of the population (or at least attempts to) makes me really very unhappy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ Mar 4 2007, 07:40 PM) [snapback]400031[/snapback]</div>

Your concept of compassionate is confusing.