Down to the Rapture

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Feb 27 2007, 07:21 PM) [snapback]397472[/snapback]</div>

Last name is spelled Schmidt! Still, being in S/W Ohio, it would be difficult to find me, lot's of Schmidt's in my area (very Germanic). Also, I am retired. Also, I regret I made this all so easy...I am on Priusguy's side. I am notin the book so you will have to work (harder than most common criminals will) to find me.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Feb 28 2007, 12:24 AM) [snapback]397612[/snapback]</div>

Nope, that is your interpretation. It is correct I have said works will not get you into heaven, only faith..but faith without works is dead. Also, if Hitler, the Marquis de Sade, 9/11 Hijackers asked for and received God's forgivenesss, then yes, they are saved. I suspect that they did not. But, the Bible says, (paraphrasing)I will save who I will and Who are you to judge my people or basically I am God and I can do what I want. (That was all God speaking)

Let's see, FIRST believe in Jesus as your Lord and saviour, 2nd, NOW behave in a manner (works) to bring glory to God. How is that counting for ZERO. (You are blind and deaf...biblically)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ Feb 28 2007, 10:10 PM) [snapback]398209[/snapback]</div>

Yes, it's liberals.

Democrat Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich
Democrat Senator Tommy Kilby
California Democrat Joe Baca

There are lots more.. there is a Republican trying to make it illegal for minors to purchase 17+ rated games, but these freakin Democrats want to BAN SALES of them in their states.

Another reason liberals are terrible "Think of the Children" maroons!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ Feb 28 2007, 06:21 PM) [snapback]398149[/snapback]</div>

Wholly smokes... you don't know who is King Nebby by now?... I knew you weren't reading my posts... how many times do people usually have to explain things to you?

Oh and if you "could" kill God... Poof!.. you would be gone... because by him all things exist.

(Col 1:16 NKJV) For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
(Col 1:17 NKJV) And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Just because you are mad at God and are living in sin so you can't feel him doesn't mean he doesn't exist....

Why don't you jump up and down and scream and roll around on the ground and throw a temper tantrum and say he doesn't exist... is that how your trying to get Gods attention?

God see's your heart... I will not dare judge it....But I do know God respects honesty and being real with him... if you are angry with God...... scream it out to him in prayer... he will hear....




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Feb 28 2007, 06:21 PM) [snapback]398151[/snapback]</div>

yea.. he hasn't brought that issue up again!.. LOL!.... Bad monkey!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Feb 28 2007, 06:34 PM) [snapback]398213[/snapback]</div>

Whoops, my apologies getting your name incorrect - I should have checked. I knew Schmika was a correct spelling - I just forgot it was your screen handle, not your name.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Feb 28 2007, 06:34 PM) [snapback]398213[/snapback]</div>

The 2nd sentence instantly contradicts the first. Because if the 2nd sentence is true, works CAN'T matter, can they? Either works count or they don't; which is it? If the likes of Hitler and the 9/11 hijackers can attain heaven by a simple adjustment of belief, I don't see where works, positive or negative, affect admittance to heaven or eternal residency there one iota.

Look at what you're asserting here - take two personalities, four hypothetical possible combinations:

1. Hitler ..... Lifelong evil works, professes honest belief, bingo, is awarded heaven.
2. Hitler ..... Lifelong evil works, denies god, is banished to hell.
3. Martin Luther King ..... Exceptional works, believes as required, is awarded heaven.
4. Martin Luther King ..... Exceptional works, was a closet atheist, is banished to hell.

Explain how works have the slightest influence on any of these outcomes. Because if they do, I don't see it. It's heaven or hell, jack, and no shades of gray, and the magic button is belief, not works.

Or maybe there are shades of gray:

Are you saying heaven is partitioned; some parts of it are better to inhabit than others, and works determine whether you get to live in the good sections or the slums?

Are you saying the way god greets you upon entrance depends on works; if they were good god throws you a hundred year party, if mediocre or evil you don't meet god personally, you just get a form letter of welcome?

If so, where are these stipulations spelled out? I've never heard you or anyone else mention anything like them - it's always sharp black or white: heaven, or hell. Period.

And your concept of works itself is weird. It illustrates perfectly why I regard church as fundamentally anti-human:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Feb 28 2007, 06:34 PM) [snapback]398213[/snapback]</div>

Glory to god? You think flattering god is what's important? How about behaving in a manner of plain decency toward your fellow man? Your priorities are 180 degrees opposed to mine, sir: I rank morality and ethics a strong #1 well before any kind of belief, which in order of importance is, on my list, down near the bottom, close to #8,000 or so. I don't give a germ's fleck of spit what somebody believes, but I care very much how they comport themselves toward me and toward others.

And I'll wager that's how you size up people yourself: I'm sure you'd welcome an atheist Martin Luther King before you'd give the time of day to a devout, believing Hitler, precisely the reverse of what you claim is god's preference of acceptance. I could be wrong, but if you'd really prefer a believing Hitler over an atheist M.L. King, I'd have to wonder if you're a fit member of the human race.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Feb 28 2007, 10:00 PM) [snapback]398254[/snapback]</div>

OK.. lets make is simple..... think of the unimaginable number of tons of effort involved in creating the universe and holding it in balance?...all the way down to the atomic level?
What about the sheer intelligence and knowledge involved?
Not to mention having to be everywhere at once to maintain it?
Not to mention being able to think and concentrate on all things at once?... almost like a computer with no hardrive.... all ram all the time!

what could you are I possibly "do" that would help or even impress God?

What he responds to is love which works by faith, and faith which works by love.
(Gal 5:6 NKJV) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

Love is an extention of himself... things far to deep to understand with the feeble mind.

Works done in faith are proof they are noble, stated faith with no works is empty.

works alone can be more incriminating than no works at all, if the works are done in selfishness.

Taking spiritual matters and relating them into the physical world always misses allot in the translation!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 28 2007, 08:15 PM) [snapback]398260[/snapback]</div>

Excellent observation. So what's with all the "praise god" and "glory to god" foofrah trying to flatter the thing? Seems to me even as childish a god as you imagine would see through all the attempted flattery.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 28 2007, 08:15 PM) [snapback]398260[/snapback]</div>

Love for whom? God? Why should god care? (see above about "impressing" god). Love for your fellow man? That would make more sense - and you don't need a god to be loving toward your fellow man, you just be loving. But if loving your fellow man is what god's looking for, that it's THAT that impresses the holy motherboard of inifinite RAM, that's WORKS, not belief, taking precedence.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 28 2007, 08:15 PM) [snapback]398260[/snapback]</div>

and you are awarded heaven;

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 28 2007, 08:15 PM) [snapback]398260[/snapback]</div>

and you are awarded heaven anyway, if your belief is genuine;

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 28 2007, 08:15 PM) [snapback]398260[/snapback]</div>

and so regardless of the nobility of the works, absent belief in god, bam, straight to hell you go, do not pass Go, do not collect $200.

I keep tellin' you guys, your assertions continue to confirm that works are pointless, they DO NOT AFFECT entrance to heaven, according to your innumerable posts right up to this one.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 28 2007, 08:15 PM) [snapback]398260[/snapback]</div>

Another excellent observation. Is it any wonder that every word and verse and chapter of the bible has as many interpretations as there are readers?

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ Feb 28 2007, 05:21 PM) [snapback]398009[/snapback]</div>

Thanks!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 28 2007, 10:22 PM) [snapback]398237[/snapback]</div>

:lol: :lol:

Its sad their grasping at straws as they are sliding into the quick-sand... Blasphemy , Immaturely running around spouting I killed God! Anything to get a rise out of the believers.. All the while we laugh at them , not with them..

I think they will let the name argument die a quick death, I would have to say my name isn't as common.... B)

Mack Bird
Uranus Fl.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Feb 28 2007, 10:53 PM) [snapback]398275[/snapback]</div>

do you have children?

What can they possibly do that will outwit or impress you due to thier cognitive abilities and what can they do that will actually help you out on a project?.. if fact, they slow you down and get in your way and in thier interest to help, only cause problems that would be avoided if they were not in the picture right?

But because you "love" them, you want them to be part of your life and you see them as cute and adorable..... The apple of your eye....
It "pleases" God to include us and through his love, we work with him.

If you have never had a good father experience, it will be hard to relate.

(1 Cor 1:19 NKJV) For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."
(1 Cor 1:20 NKJV) Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
(1 Cor 1:21 NKJV) For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

(1 Cor 1:21 KJV) For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

(Psa 17:8 NKJV) Keep me as the apple of Your eye; Hide me under the shadow of Your wings,

(1 Th 2:11 NKJV) as you know how we exhorted, and comforted, and charged every one of you, as a father does his own children,

(Mark 16:20 NKJV) And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Mar 1 2007, 01:00 AM) [snapback]398254[/snapback]</div>

As I stated, you are blind. It is pointless to apply natural man logic to God. I get it, I understand, I accept it all. Makes for a very peaceful (internally) life. I am sorry for your torment.

Oh, it helps for you to know this, I believe that once you are truly saved, God/Holy Spirit will not allow you to purposefully harm another believer...if God knows you are gonna, he is going to call you home..."poof".

 

I had a ex-father inlaw that was the biggest nay sayer of them all he made the scoffers here sound like school kids. But in the end I went to see him 6 hrs before he died...

He looked at me and asked me how he could be saved. I was in shock, but I told him and he did it.
He then said he felt like he had peace, I hung out with him for 2 hrs and talked while he would drift into and out of conciousness... His wife continues to curse God but theres hope for her yet.... Oh shes also a democrat and drives one of those killer SUV... :lol: :mellow:

 

It's really sad that one waits until they are on their deathbed before they come to Jesus.

They could have had the peace that surpasses all understanding while still alive living here on the face of the earth.

AirportKid, do you know why people worship God? When one worships God you are actually inviting Him to be a part of your life.

It's like when you want to have company to come visit you, you extend an invitation by a note, a phone call, email, or in person.

When people go to church to worship the Lord, the are asking Him to be involved in their lives.

When we go to pray the Lord's Prayer as Jesus taught His disciples, it covers a multitude of areas in a person's life, especially on a daily basis.

The Lord wants to bless all people not just some or specific ones, but all people. Why? Because He created all of us, not just some or specific ones, but all people.

And so, His Word, (the bible), points us in the right direction that we should go.

He who has the Son, has Eternal Life. He who has the Son also has the Heavenly Father.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Mar 1 2007, 06:48 AM) [snapback]398424[/snapback]</div>

This I am sure is enormous comfort to all the saved, believing children who were molested by their pastors and priests.

You're right, I am blind and deaf - to illogic and unreason. You have many times insisted that logic and reason cannot be applied to faith and following god, an attitude and belief I find profoundly anti-human. To deliberately refrain from scientifically investigating what the religious claim is THE most important aspect of our existence is a stunning, incomprehensible denial of what we are: beings that thrive by exploring the marvels of nature, and in so doing make our lives on earth better. I will ALWAYS be blind and deaf to illogic, unreason, and incurious acceptance of whatever "feels good" that happens to blow into my path. My experience in the school of hard knocks has taught me, more than once, that many things that "feel good" at first are often actually harmful - and the best way to sort out the good from the harmful is by logic and reason.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

AirportKid, I understand where you are coming from when you say that the school of hard knocks has taught that what feels good is not necessarily good but harmful. That is so true!

You know, that God is a God of order. All of creation shows us that there is a pattern for the way things work, and that is as it should be.

Can you imagine the infinite wisdom God showed when He created earth just for man to live on? Especially the total environment? The gravity, the air that we breathe, everything. When those things do not work, chaos reigns.

I had the opportunity to take a trip on Skyline Drive through the mountains in Virginia and it was breath taking to say the least! And to see all of the wildlife, including a bear galloping across the road! Wow!

It just makes me all the more grateful to know that God is in control.

Most of the things that happen in our world today is due to man. But God is a God of power and might and He can intervene at any time.

He loves to answer prayer and will not hesitate to do so.

I would just encourage you to continue to look to Him, for He does care for you as He does each one of us.

All you have to do is just ask Him into your life. Read the bible. It is always living which means that it will always speak to you and minister to you where you are in life at that moment.

You can pick it up now and read it and He will speak to you through it. Tomorrow you can pick it up and read it and He will speak to you again about your situations and circumstances through it.

And when you are in the deepest pit of your life, His hand is not so short that He cannot reach down and pull you up and set you on a solid rock.

The Lord loves you just as you are. You were made in His image. All He wants is to have fellowship with you.

I hope this helps.

Have a great day Airport Kid!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Mar 1 2007, 03:30 PM) [snapback]398708[/snapback]</div>

Calculus is totally illogical to someone who only knows addition and subtraction.



Logic is based on intelligence and knowledge to assimiliate information.



A computer without a program cannot process logic.



A computer that only understands windows because thats its platform, cannot process programs formed in linux?



You have to get another partition to load another platform, but cannot run out of both at the same time... you either load up into one or the other.



Your computer has only been programmed with programs from this world......

The two don't mix.. you either process one way, or the other... not both.



You have to wipe the hardrive clean and load a new spirit programming to process spirit.



Even more than that.. the old does not convert to the new... its a whole new creation.. a new birth!

that which was dead is made alive!



Its almost like you have the parts because you were fashioned in the image if God, but no one has flipped the switch yet to apply electricity to your new circuits that have never been used from birth.

The Holy Spirit is that electricity and he will teach you as he energizes you with your new found senses of the spirit realm.



Spirit begats spirit and flesh begats flesh.



You cannot take a mind born of carnality and flesh and assimiliate things fashioned and born in the spirit realm.



If you are blind and deaf to that whole world, you cannot process the logic of it.



Do you love anybody at all in your life?....... can you tell me how that makes sense logically and rationally?



Do you care about anybody?... can you explain that logically?....



Remember Star Trek?.. Spock had the same problem!



So did the anteroid in the new star trek... just a cold heart of metal and parts..... no real life!

 

That's true Windstrings.

 

Comparing a man made computer to a sentient being is pretty asinine if you ask me.

So you compared Linux and Windows.. but what about OS X?

There is more than one flavor of life, whether you believe it or not. It isn't black and white, no matter how hard you try to make it that way. I know it seems easier to see in only black and white, but then you are refusing to see all the other colors of the spectrum.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Mar 1 2007, 06:30 PM) [snapback]398708[/snapback]</div>

Satan is the prince of this world. Any man can fall under his spell and do. These people you describe, they were not "right" with God and they will pay if they did not repent per the Lord's requirements.

Why do you think paradise should be here on earth? Why do you rail against the injustices here on earth? For you, this will be torment to you until you die, for me, it is simply a place I must stay and help others to find what I have found....then to be called home. Mark.......it is not logical....but it does have reason. "Anti-Human?????", if pro-God isn't the most PRO human thing I can think of....then what is??????

Stop using fallen men to make a point about God. Look to God and Jesus in their perfect form (that's a redundency..sorry) for your belief. I am a member of an evangelical fundemental Baptist church. The pastor is a spiritual advisor..not a leader. Every member is answerable to his Lord (JESUS) individually. I do not need to be guided, discouraged, influenced, etc by any of these examples of ungodliness other than to show me that I too, can fall if I do not renew myself in my faith daily...nee' HOURLY!

I defy anyone here to say they are a "better" human than I am. My WORKS will demonstrate my FAITH! Your interpretation of my words are meaningless to God, HE will interpret my words and my works to verify my faithfulness.

So, my job is to please God, not you. If pleasing God means I must please you in order to possibly lead you to the Holy Spirit, I'll do that, if my job is to displease you to lead you to the Holy Spirit, I'll do that as well.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 1 2007, 05:12 PM) [snapback]398739[/snapback]</div>

You are still comparing your one side... yes within "windows" there are many flavors and many different programs.. but its still not linux.



Ok Forget it.... so you missed what I was trying to say.....I was trying to talk language you may understand.



It was a parable.. not a perfect one, but still to make a point.. all you want to do is see error and not see any point.. thats the whole point!

Because if you saw the point, a finger would be pointing at you!, its easier to play dumb and say "I don't understand, or no speaka de engles" than to seek out any truth. Run forrest.. .run from the light.. the darkness with save you!... "says the fool"



"Sentience" is the word I believe you were looking for, but thats a perfect example!.. those machines thought they had self awareness and were equal with humans, but in reality they had no soul, no spirit and no heart.. only logic and intelligence as a computer which seemed to put them as an equal in a technological world of space and computers and physics. But theres far more to life than that.



I'm sure may be referring the the Buddist description of the word.



But there is a whole lot your missing in life there weed hopper!.. I just hope your not an old man about to die or laying on a hospital bed breathing your last breath before you figure that out!



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ Mar 1 2007, 02:19 PM) [snapback]398720[/snapback]</div>

Loveit, the tone of your posts has been consistently considerate and caring and, unlike my scathing screeds, you do not mock my position. For that I commend you and thank you, very much. I would do well heed your example and be less combative - I'm quite sure my scorn and sarcasm is off-putting and defeats my effort to be persuasive.

It is extremely unlikely that I will "find" god. I tried that when I was a teenager - I gave a fundamentalist christian church and its beliefs (identical to yours and Windstring's and Karl's) several months of honest dedication. It didn't take. The church eventually asked me to leave, an act I found incomprehensible since it meant, according to their beliefs, they were abandoning me to certain hell. Either they didn't really believe in hell or they were unforgiveably callous. I was asked to leave because I kept questioning, and the one thing established religion can't abide is intellectual inquiry. Guys, I was born with an insatiably intellectually curious mind, and telling me to shut that aspect of my character down is the same as telling me to stop breathing.

So I quit the church, which meant losing many close friendships, because the church can't tolerate apostasy, and after I got over the emotional wrench of losing, for no good reason, an enormous kinship with a lot of wonderful people, I felt more free than I had ever felt.

More than 30 years later I don't regret leaving that church one iota. As my education has increased, and as mankind's education has increased, the need for "god" has vanished to nothing. It's exactly the same as children outgrowing the "need" for Santa Claus, the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny - with maturity and increased knowledge such fantasys become unnecessary.

All of your exhortations have been for me to look to "god" to find peace, or relieve torment. I'm at peace, and I'm a long way from being in any sort of "torment". Trying again to shut off my mind in order to get back to "god" - THAT would be torment. No thank you.

We can continue dialogue. I'll always have hope I might someday succeed at getting someone to really look logically at some position they hold, and recognize what I consider its absurdity. It's the same as your trying to persuade me that "god" is the one true path. And if in the rhetorical tussle we both come away having learned something, THAT is of more value than whether one of us had a change of mind.

Thanks again, Loveit, for your considerate and friendly tone.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA