Down to the Rapture

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Feb 27 2007, 06:35 AM) [snapback]397129[/snapback]</div>

wow thats scary, you guessed my first name right off the bat ! Yes its Fred :blink: .. (yeah you probibly are not versed in the ways of the (Secret Squirrel Code of Ethics)...

Again one would be weak if they give into their ideals, or code of ethics..

But your words sit better with the religion hating libbies, kinda says something, doesnt it?
I have yet to see where Loveit, Windstrings or myself are running around trying convert anyone.
We have merly been discussing our views on our beliefs, and how they differ from yours. Even our bibles are different... :huh:

Im guessing these two versions are written in todays wording.. Why was there a need to rewrite the bible again and word it by todays standards? what was wrong with the KJV ?? :mellow:

Thanks Fred.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Feb 27 2007, 02:29 AM) [snapback]397111[/snapback]</div>

TJ, does your version of the Bible, or whatever it is that you may reference for your version of Christianity have Matthew 28:19-20. Does it mention anything about leaving the rest of the world to themselves, let them be happy in their lifestyle... Maybe yours says "Party On" or something, just curious.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Feb 27 2007, 02:29 AM) [snapback]397111[/snapback]</div>

I'm curious why you think this. What is your reference point that can give you this kind of hope? Why do you believe that you will go to heaven, and what, if anything pointed your mind or beliefs to any possible reason that you might go to heaven? Why does it matter where your heart is and where must your heart be?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ Feb 27 2007, 09:05 AM) [snapback]397132[/snapback]</div>

\
So do I..... ! WORKS will not save me from eternity w/o God!!!!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Feb 26 2007, 11:44 PM) [snapback]397088[/snapback]</div>

The answer is NO... your definition of morality is not based on God... its based on whatever you like and whatever mans laws say is ok.

Your morals say its ok to do and practice things that disagree with what God feels.
God is the creator, not you... please get it straight.

Its legal in this country for two grown men to have what I morally call illicit sex... is that wrong for your morals?
Are you merely a law to yoursefl and make it up as you go until your countered?

It two women kiss and cram thier tongues down each others mouth and prob around with passionate sounds, is that against your morals?.. its not against the law? Society says its ok.. so is it morally right?

Whose morals do you live by is the real question, because there are many sets of morals but only one that God approves of.

The bank robber feels its ok to take your money because you can afford it anyway... his morals say one thing society says another.

AGain, you have no morals without the Holy Spirit.... until you have a spirit that is Holy within you, you can't assimilate what Holy is.

Moral may not be Holy according to man.. but it is to God.

To live a Holy life means the same thing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Feb 27 2007, 01:16 AM) [snapback]397105[/snapback]</div>

No problem TJ... NKJ is good for me....

But there is a difference between arrongance that says I am better than you, verses anger with the hardness of hearts that will never hear and don't want to hear or see, yet persist in argueing.
Here is a prime example of Jesus getting angered with a similar crowd and so he does something dramatic and shows them a miracle, even after witnessing that, those that were blind and hard of heart started counselling to destroy him.... Thats the arrogance I hate and speak down to.. it cannot learn, its stupid, blind, and ignorant and this arrogance perfers to stay ignorant, lest it see something that may convict it.

(Mark 3:4 NKJV) Then He said to them, "Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?" But they kept silent.
(Mark 3:5 NKJV) And when He had looked around at them with anger, being grieved by the hardness of their hearts, He said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." And he stretched it out, and his hand was restored as whole as the other.
(Mark 3:6 NKJV) Then the Pharisees went out and immediately plotted with the Herodians against Him, how they might destroy Him.

I have no patience with someone who is not asking honest questions and trying to learn.

I'm not out here to argue what I know against what others believe and don't really know.

There is a big difference in offending someones pride verses speaking down to their being.

I have no problem offending someone's pride.... niether did Jesus.

(John 8:42 NKJV) Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.
(John 8:43 NKJV) "Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.
(John 8:44 NKJV) "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
(John 8:45 NKJV) "But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.
(John 8:46 NKJV) "Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?
(John 8:47 NKJV) "He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God."</span>



<span style="color:#006600">Jesus was tryihg to say here that these people were bent of fullfilling thier develish lust and did not want to hear him. And so only wanted to convict him in some way to allieviate thier condemnation they were feeling.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Feb, 12:29 AM) [snapback]397111[/snapback]</div>

Now that's a refreshing discourse. Almost makes me want to believe. B)

I am certainly at peace with my decision. And the way you live your life is more than cool with me.

 

'TJandGENESIS' date='Feb 27 2007, 01:50 AM' post='397106

Those who have killed in Jesus name, well, they certainly didn't get it, did they? Why can't people just live in peace with each other? It eludes me.

Its basic evil that still resides in human nature... even look at the animals, they are no less cruel to each other to maintain territory and stick together in groups against other groups and to kill each other.


It's part of my belief that most people are selfish bastards, and that includes Christians.

I mean it. When was the last time anyone besides me put away the shopping cart? I am being 100% serious. It seems trivial, putting away the shopping cart, but it is not.

I agree, the sin nature is still prevelant and still tries to dominate.. thats why we must live underneath the cleansing forgiving blood of atonement that allows sin to not be imputed against us.

(Rom 4:7 NKJV) "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
(Rom 4:8 NKJV) Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin."

(Rom 4:22 NKJV) And therefore "it was accounted to him for righteousness."
(Rom 4:23 NKJV) Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him,
(Rom 4:24 NKJV) but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead,
(Rom 4:25 NKJV) who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.
(Rom 5:1 NKJV) Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Relationship through Faith is like when your child messes up.. you are not looking to punish because you love and you have relationship.. if that child reaches out to you the wrong way, he is forgiven and no ill is imputed towards him because you know his heart.

Its not about works and acts that make us right before God, its faith and relationship.
But these cannot be attained without first having his Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit if the fabric that connects Gods invisible world to us so we can partake and experience it.


You sir, take the cake, then spread it all around your face, whilst saying, 'No cake for you! All for me!'

I said that because I have had conversations with airport kid before and throughout all this thread he has been silent until now!.... LOL!.. I'm sure he must have tripped upon this thread.. theres no way he could have held his peace that long!
I surmise this because "as you know TJ" some of what he is fired up about has already been discussed throughout this thread just while I have been a part. I got in on the late end of it when asked.

You too TJ have gone from those strong arrogant rebuttals to actually being able to have a conversation with..
I appreciate your grace.


Could you possibly see what that one line says about you, and your faith in Christ?
Would Christ have said that? In any language? If He did, I bet he would have spelled this word, quoting from you: "unknowledgable" correctly at least...(spell check; it's free and easy to use)

TJ, if your worried about spelling, you really are getting desperate to find fault.... as you can see I have done a tremedous amount of replies and writing. Many will not bother nor take the time.
I have a life and things to do also.... most of the time when I am replying, I have things waiting on me.

I love the edit button, because my fingers never type what by brain tells them but the skip ahead because my brain is thinking faster than my fingers can go.

I suppose you would rather me not reply because the spelling is not perfect?
Or are you again desperate to find imperfections?.. I"m loaded with imperfections.. I have already gone over this is the past... you guys need to get your attention off me....

There was much that Jesus said that was misunderstood... its like trying to explain the inward parts of a jet engine to a child that plays with tinker toys.

Faith, love, trust, are all easy if you can accept God on those terms.. then he will teach you many things, but you cannot rely on them to get started because the carnal mind cannot comphrehend the things of God.

(John 8:51 NKJV) "Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death."
(John 8:52 NKJV) Then the Jews said to Him, "Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, 'If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.'
(John 8:53 NKJV) "Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Whom do You make Yourself out to be?"

(Rom 8:6 NKJV) For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
(Rom 8:7 NKJV) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
(Rom 8:8 NKJV) So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
(Rom 8:9 NKJV) But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Some good reading here.. Hebrews too.... far too much to cover in simple replys.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 26 2007, 10:10 PM) [snapback]396995[/snapback]</div>

Wow.

Just wow.

Welcome to the 21st Century.

Doctors heal the sick.

Devils? Like an exorcism? Too much TV?

You don't need Jesus to live in peace.

I'm afraid you've lost all of my respect. Not only do you appear to be the most close minded person on this forum, it is also highly probable that you have a mental illness. You speak of visions, voices, and devils.

Putting away a shopping cart? Lay off the Kool-Aid man. Grocery stores pay some kid 5.15 an hour to put those away. Do you think "God" frowns down on people for not putting the shopping carts away?

What a sad, fear based life you live.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Feb 27 2007, 02:12 AM) [snapback]397108[/snapback]</div>

Wow!.. no kidding TJ?....
IF someone is heading for a cliff, is it the love of God to let them go without warning?
Don't get in anybody's business?

I am simply putting out the word.. the word is what is getting in peoples business.

Churches have strokes people feathers for too long telling them how "good" they are and how God loves them without challenging thier lifestyles that block them from knowing God.

There will be many pastors who pay a high price for putting thier offering plate before the mandate God has given them to do and speak in his Name.... Oh my!.. we don't want to "offend" anybody.. they may not come back?

Do you think Jesus worried about offending people?
He spoke the truth.. if the truth offended them, then so be it, but he didn't hold it back.

(Heb 4:12 NKJV) For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

<span style="color:#000000">As the word reveals the thoughts and intents of the heart, you can see all through scripture.. even back in the Old Testament that those who were filled with evil became enraged... so what? Maybe they will learn something if lightening strikes at their feet?

If you are afraid of getting in peoples business and offending them, your in the wrong business if you think you carry the word of God.

<span style="color:#ff0000">(Mat 5:11 NKJV) "Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.
(Mat 5:12 NKJV) "Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
(Mat 5:13 NKJV) "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.
(Mat 5:14 NKJV) "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.

Verse 13 is where many of the churches are today and this is why men trample them underfoot.


(John 15:20 NKJV) "Remember the word that I said to you, 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also.

If you are getting no persecution from what you do, say, and live TJ, maybe you should ask "why not?"

BTW..I see your quotes, but they don't say which version you prefer or are using.
</span></span>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Feb 27 2007, 02:39 AM) [snapback]397113[/snapback]</div>

Its not all about peace.. there is a real enemy out there.. this is the problem with terrorism.... when they come to destroy and kill and we only want to make peace, they laugh at us all the more and become even more confident and bent of taking out the easy prey.

Sorry, but thats evil at work.. you have to fight for freedom....
Jesus never intended to bring peace on earth.......
I hate to blow your minds as in the christmas carol "peace on earth, goodwill towards men"

(Mat 10:34 NKJV) "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
(Mat 10:35 NKJV) "For I have come to 'set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law';
(Mat 10:36 NKJV) "and 'a man's enemies will be those of his own household.'
(Mat 10:37 NKJV) "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
(Mat 10:38 NKJV) "And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.
(Mat 10:39 NKJV) "He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

(Rev 2:16 NKJV) 'Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.

(Exo 15:3 NKJV) The LORD is a man of war; The LORD is His name.
(Exo 15:4 NKJV) Pharaoh's chariots and his army He has cast into the sea; His chosen captains also are drowned in the Red Sea.
(Exo 15:5 NKJV) The depths have covered them; They sank to the bottom like a stone.

Evil has flourished taking advantage of Gods love and his graces....

(Eccl 8:11 NKJV) Because the sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.
(Eccl 8:12 NKJV) Though a sinner does evil a hundred times, and his days are prolonged, yet I surely know that it will be well with those who fear God, who fear before Him.
(Eccl 8:13 NKJV) But it will not be well with the wicked; nor will he prolong his days, which are as a shadow, because he does not fear before God.







<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Feb 27 2007, 04:58 AM) [snapback]397122[/snapback]</div>

TJ, after such heated discussions, its my hope that your just wanting to get to know the guys better, but you have to admit, this is quite the volitile place to be giving personal names.... just not smart....

Too many idiots that don't regard family or anything precious... they are just raving madmen....

Hope you understand...... and thanks for asking.....

Maybe in a PM someday when trust and respect is developed.. that takes a little time..... they are earned and not unconditional, like the Love of God.

But even with God, there will be hoards of people that go to hell that God loves and cries to save them, but they will not hear.

(Mat 23:36 NKJV) "Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
(Mat 23:37 NKJV) "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
(Mat 23:38 NKJV) "See! Your house is left to you desolate;
(Mat 23:39 NKJV) "for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!'"




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Feb 27 2007, 05:09 AM) [snapback]397124[/snapback]</div>

That very attitude is why... Even though the Lord protects, he still cautions against foolish acts that make ourselves vulnerable.

(Hosea 4:6 NKJV) My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me; Because you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.
(Hosea 4:7 NKJV) "The more they increased, The more they sinned against Me; I will change their glory into shame.

When the Lord gives us guidance... that doesn't mean we can do what we want and nothing will happen????

You reap what you sow.....

No, I"m not going to give you my bank routing numbers either.....

Do you know the difference between being foolish and doing every thing that pops in your head verses listening to the guidance of the Holy Spirit?

I have avoided Accidents listening to God.

 

I think I figured it out.. Windstrings is a member of the Westboro Bapist Church!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Feb 27 2007, 11:56 AM) [snapback]397235[/snapback]</div>

I guess theres a few of us that would be concidered members of Westboro Church. :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Feb 27 2007, 01:05 PM) [snapback]397240[/snapback]</div>

Yikes! It'd be terrible to be associated with them.. but Windstrings sounds just like Fred Phelps!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Feb 27 2007, 11:14 AM) [snapback]397250[/snapback]</div>

Well, I'm not sure about how Freddy feels.. I haven't studied his stuff.. but God hates sin... he is Holy and the two cannot mix.. but he loves the sinner.. just not the sin that binds them.

And God is a jeaous God and yes, he does get angry.....

But when the sinner will not let go of that sin and clings to it and so follows it, he is is precarious waters with God.

Sodom "sodomy" and Gomorrah was such a city.. even though Abraham in his love tried to save anyone is the city.. time finally ran out as did Gods grace and abraham was forced to leave to avoid the judgement about to fall.

I"m sorry, but there is a scary side to God.... you really don't want to wait till your standing before God to find that even though he loved you, you still did not obey him and accept his terms of redemption but did it your way.

Really knowing God is a biggy....

(Mat 7:21 NKJV) "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
(Mat 7:22 NKJV) "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
(Mat 7:23 NKJV) "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

If this judgement befell those who apparently operated in his name going about doing good but did it there way instead of following the leading of God, now much more severe judgement against those who do not even acknowledge his existence and in this country full and bountiful in Gods word, still rejected him?

 

So what makes your God anymore valid than the Gods of the Greeks? They believed just as strongly as you do..

I don't even know why I'm still talking to you.. It's like a train wreck.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Feb 27 2007, 11:40 AM) [snapback]397275[/snapback]</div>

Its agreed then!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Feb 27 2007, 11:37 AM) [snapback]397212[/snapback]</div>

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but how do you rectify this with the following passages also from Matthew (King James Version, I believe):
Mat 26:51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword

That certainly seems to me to be a strong case for non-violence. There are schools of thought that say the verses you quoted advocate violence and others that say it is meant to be a prediction that the disciples would meet violent opposition to spreading the word.

I guess I'm really asking what you believe the verses quoted mean. The years I've spent listening to the Catholic Church teach that Jesus was a bringer of peace, I lean more towards "prediction".

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Feb 27 2007, 12:14 PM) [snapback]397250[/snapback]</div>

I really have no idea what the Wesrburo church is....

But you (in general terms) will find there are quite a few here that are Bible believing Christians and we reconize one GOD !

With that being said, some people/churches like to smooth over certian topics that may offend some people to attract a wider range of followers. Then there are others who will not smooth over those topics as they believe in the word, and what it stands for. Some may call it the Fire & Brimstone approach which may chase certain types of people away but still attracts quite a few follwers.

Sometimes the truth hurts, and we do not want to hear the truth. Or for some its easier to twist the truth to better suit their needs...

If you decide to believe in God and read the bible thats entirely up to you, but as you can see from this thread the word is out there...

If you choose to believe in an Idol type god thats your business....

If you choose not to believe in GOD again thats your right, but don't come crying to us if we decide to talk about religion, GOD or the Bible.. Religion is here to stay & has been since the days of Jesus.. Again if you dont like it unsubscribe from the thread.... Kinda like ignor, if it offends you...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Feb 27 2007, 10:08 AM) [snapback]397199[/snapback]</div>

Man!!! I thought I had this one wrapped up, hands down.

Windstrings, can you ease up a bit, 'close minded' is all I have left and now maybe that's gone!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Feb 27 2007, 11:46 AM) [snapback]397279[/snapback]</div>

Good question.. Jesus was never raising an army to fight with swords of steel as the Jews had supposed.. they were expecting Jesus to set up his kingdom and take over the world, but instead he set up his kingdom in their hearts and told them that his kingdom was not of this world, but he prepared another place.

At the same time, he teaches his children to do warfare, but not with bloodletting as we think of war.
There were times in the old testatmen where he did indeed command David to destroy evil nations and to kill every last one, but today is the day of Grace and of salvation.. the warfare he is endorcing is spiritual.

I still believe if a nation comes to terrorise and rape and pillage that we are to stand up and fight the evil presented against us, but we are a defensive nation, not offensive... "supposedly anyway"

God expects you to turn your check in some circumstances as his love forbids lowering to hate and vengence, but in other situations, Jesus chased them out of the temple with the sting of a whip.
But never did he take someone's life.

When people are sold to evil, then they respresent it and are subject to it.

When Jesus said "he that lives by the sword, will die by the sword", he was talking about the spirit of why and how you use your sword.
Obviously if you use it to cut grass, that doesn't mean you will die by it.
But if you use to to kill, then yes, because you have surrendered to that evil spirit.

When Peter wanted to kill the person .. Jesus said "you know not what spirit ye are of"..

(Luke 9:54 NKJV) And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?"
(Luke 9:55 NKJV) But He turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what manner of spirit you are of.
(Luke 9:56 NKJV) "For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them." And they went to another village.


Its all about what spirit you are of..
Who's command are you following?