Do you think winter's effect on EV is given enough attention?

There are a few reasons winter driving increases wh/mile, some of them operating in all cars, while extra consumption for cabin heating is mostly an EV penalty only.

 

Wasn't trying to be "snarky" or to derail the thread.
Was just surprised someone that was getting an EV would heat their garage with fossil fuels. I thought EVs were just one of many ways to reduce fossil fuel use. Another way to reduce fossil fuel use is to not heat outdoor spaces or garages (which become outdoor spaces every time you open the door.)

 

What temperatures will you be seeing in Delaware?

Here in Minnesota, it drops below freezing and stays there for almost a month before we get a brief taste of warm. Then the temperature plummets to below 0°F for a few days, sometimes an entire week straight. Volt owners are going to see a heck of a lot more than a 20% drop in these parts.

For Prius, it's a different story. I'll be taking full advantage of the engine for warm-up. Why not save the EV for when the cabin is comfortable?
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EV main impact is displace petroleum in favor of domestic fuels.
So unless Efusco has oil heat, he is intellectually honest.

 

Exactamundo

 

My Zap Xebra, which I drove for 4 years, until I got the Tesla this summer, has LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate) batteries. These are very different from the li-ion batteries in my Tesla or the proprietary batteries in the Volt and Leaf, so maybe what I say won't really translate to those cars.

Because of the front wheel in the middle, I cannot drive it when there is snow on the road, but we get moderately cold weather and I've driven the Xebra in cold weather when the roads are dry.

The electric heater draws a moderate amount of current, but heats up the car fast, and after an initial period to heat the cabin, I have to turn it down to low, and then turn it off and on, with more off than on, to keep the cabin from getting too warm. I do dress warmly in cold weather.

I guesstimate 10% typical loss of range, maybe 20% on the coldest days, which can be close to zero Fahrenheit here. Note that the Xebra is not a well-constructed car, so there's some draft, which presumably a Leaf or Volt would not have. And I think both of those cars allow you to pre-heat the cabin from the grid.

Originally my Xebra had lead-acid batteries, and I could really tell the difference in winter. A cold lead battery really looses power. The LiFePO4 battery pack does not seem to lose power in cold weather. Every battery chemistry has different characteristics, so you cannot make assumptions about how a particular pack will act in the cold. You need the battery specs. I don't know the specs for the Leaf and Volt batteries, but you cannot extrapolate from lead batteries or from laptop li-ion batteries. (The Tesla has laptop batteries, and it has both active heating and cooling to keep them at the design temperature, which varies depending on which mode you select: Range, Performance, or Standard.)

Real-world loss of range due to using the heater is reduced by the fact that the heater should not have to run at full blast all the time. And range will decline less if you accept that heat in an EV has a range cost, and just as you'd dial down your thermostat at home and wear a sweater if you are concerned about energy, so too you'll wear a jacket in your car and use less heat. With the heated seats and steering wheels in those cars, you can set the cabin at a lower temperature and still be comfortable.

However, when purchasing an EV it is wise to buy more range than you need. This will allow for climate control in severe weather, battery degradation over time, and unexpected detours on your route. I would not buy an 85-mile car if I had more than a 50-mile commute. With my 245-mile range now, I have total security against battery degradation, detours, and climate control. I can set the heat on full without worry. Except that the cabin gets too hot and I have to turn it down.

To Evan (and anyone else expecting to get a Model S) I'd strongly advise getting more range than you think you need, if you can afford it. You'll not only eliminate range anxiety with climate control, but as the battery degrades with time, it will be significantly longer before you have to replace the battery. For the Roadster, Tesla has a program where $12,000 paid today gets you a new battery installed in 7 years. But with 245 miles of range, I'll be dead or too old to drive before my range drops below 100 miles, which is more than I'll ever need.

 

temps alone without climate controls will cause you to lose up to 15% in range. but we already knew that. we meticulously track our Prius performances. cold air is simply harder to push out of the way. wetter roads increase rolling resistance, yada yada.

now, in my Leaf, i have already investigated several ways to stay comfortable in the cold. there are several personal options that work well, seat heaters, small 12 volt heaters, etc. but when the family is involved, those options dont work.

so now you are looking at range reduction totaling 25+%. remember, heat is portion of battery used per unit time. does not matter how far you go, only how long it takes to get there.

now, i have relatively mild weather but still had days in the 20's and still was able to make the Centralia trip (63 miles) with a bit to spare, so would have to guess about 70-75 miles for that. but SO who did the trip (she is very cold sensitive) states it was too nerve racking with the range (she would get home with 5-10 miles of range left) indicator causing her to drive slower than normal and colder than normal.

but she is not a good indicator of viability. she NEVER wears a coat even in winter. but wears long sleeve hoodies and sweaters all year long. when she drives the Prius the temp is set to 82º.

but on the Leaf, the heater is resistive and will start out as high as 4.5 Kw. but that will lower eventually to where it will settle at about 1.5 kw. but it does pulse so we can probably say it might average 2 kw.

so in an hour of driving you are losing about 8 miles of range at 4 miles per K. and that could be higher since the usage is temperature dependent. i am guessing in the midwest and Northeast you could easily see an average of 4 kw. meaning losing up to 15 miles of range per hour on the road.

so, its all relative, but at the same time. this is a temporary concern, or at least it should be. a charging network is the only way EVs will survive. remember, if not for gas stations we would not be driving cars either