Do you think armaggeddonites are sane?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pyccku @ Oct 31 2007, 07:46 AM) [snapback]532836[/snapback]</div>

Perhaps it's not God who is talking to them eh? B) Maybe all this time, the devil is the one who's talking to them and they're not bright enough to know the difference.

 

I wonder...what if it was God who told those hijackers to attack the WTC back in 2001?

When God is telling people to attack US, it's obviously not real. The guys are a bunch of religious fanatics.

But when God tells the president to disallow stem cell research with federal funds, or to attack Iraq when we haven't quite finished in Afghanistan, or to ignore global climate change...well, that's obviously the REAL God. He's a sane, decent man whom God has chosen to lead the country.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pyccku @ Nov 1 2007, 06:14 AM) [snapback]533339[/snapback]</div>

You forgot that the REAL god stops funding on overseas family planning and refuses to support the distribution of condoms, even in aids ridden countries. I guess god doesn't mind millions dying because they were not fortunate enough to be born in the U.S.. Screw Starvin' Marvin and his village!

Who cars about


These guys know what's best for us!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Oct 31 2007, 09:28 PM) [snapback]533217[/snapback]</div>

I was thinking on how to best to answer this sentence but I can not improve on today's jesusandmo.net

There is mild profanity and severe blasphemy within the strip so if you are offended easily please don't jump over. Also, this is not meant as a personal attack but as a criticism of theology in general.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Nov 1 2007, 05:10 AM) [snapback]533314[/snapback]</div>

Maybe the devil created the human race for the purpose of destroying god's green Earth in a moment when god was not looking. In furtherance of this end, the devil wrote the Bible, in effect passing himself off as god. If this were the case, it would be impossible for believers to know, since they are convinced that the author of the Bible is god, and the one who tries to destroy the human race is the devil, when in fact (in this hypothesis) everything good on the Earth was created by the one they revile, and they (we) were created by the evil one to destroy all that is good.

Caveat: I don't believe any of it. I am just pointing out that there is an equal liklihood of the author of the Bible being the Destroyer, and his opponent being the Creator, as there is of the reverse.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pyccku @ Nov 1 2007, 04:21 AM) [snapback]533299[/snapback]</div>

In a case where we are comparing the words of Pat Robertson to nearly anyone on the national scene, I would put more credence on the words of that other person.

I have known several prominent leaders in Evangelical circles, and very few of them hold the views that Hagee espouses. But even Hagee does not think his actions "help usher in" the end times and the rapture. That's not how it works, any more than having an earthquake survival kit causes the ground to shake.

President Bush falls under the same kind of theology that Jimmy Carter did; that faith and values are used to help make moral decisions, and that thoughtful people will ask God to guide them in their decision making process. That's a self-reflection kind of thing, and not the maniacal "voices in my head" type of thing non-religious people suppose. Jimmy Carter and Bush will both say that they made the decisions the best way they knew how, and they included drawing on their faith to do so.

 

My main gripe with these kinds of people is their lack of respect for science. Many of them will not accept scientific evidence because it is in direct conflict with their biblical version or earth time. They truely believe that James Usher was correct when he stated the earth was created on 4004 B.C.. Trying to debate nearly anything that I consider scientific always ends up with them trying to trump my knowledge by stating the earths real age and so all of my evidence is not true. :huh:

This translates into policy making and in turn effects us just like my earlier post about family planning funding. I mean, why would you want to take care of the environment if you knew that it was all in gods design and he was going to whisk you away when it all goes bad? By putting that kind of faith into a fanciful salvation you avoid the real work of doing things yourself for the good of your community.

 

If you always blame god when things go bad how can you take credit when you make things go well? Where do you get self-esteem out of that?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Nov 1 2007, 10:31 PM) [snapback]533704[/snapback]</div>

Talking to invisible beings sounds pretty maniacal to me. I'd prefer they talked to ethicists, historians and scientists rather than base their decisions on arbitrary faith-based values.

 

I think having the Rapture as an exit strategy is bad planning.

I also think that calling nations "Axis of evil" kind of points to a world view that includes serious Armageddon fantasies.

I've heard "sensible Christians" talk about what is currently going on as proof that the bible's "end times" is here, and that the rapture is immanent.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rae Vynn @ Nov 2 2007, 03:21 AM) [snapback]533758[/snapback]</div>

Man created God in his own image. Armageddon is a self-fulfilling prophesy, created and executed by the human ego that is, inherently, self-destructive. The end is near; not because of God but because of Man.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rae Vynn @ Nov 1 2007, 11:21 PM) [snapback]533758[/snapback]</div>

Those into eschatology will find any excuse to say we are in the End Times. I agree with them, but for a different reason (I don't think the Apostle Peter was lying on the Day of Pentecost).

But that aside, I'm not sure I follow you when you link the phrase "axis of evil" to a world view with "serious Armageddon fantasies". The phrase is not a religious one at all, and is intended to evoke not religious imagery but political memories: who were the Axis powers? Did they do "evil"? Is radical Islamic rule under sharia, as seen in Afghanistan with the Taliban, like the fascists of 20th century Europe?

Eschatologists will find parallels to their own interpretation of modern events to tie them to this verse or that, but their appropriation of the ideas does not mean that's the genesis of them.

 

My Ukrainian friend told me today, while studying for math, that she does not feel any environmental crap matters since the world is going to end sooner or later anyway. She also said that she hopes it is soon. I asked her why and she replied, because then I would get to go to heaven.....

She is 21yrs old and has been in the states for 2-3yrs now.

I find this very disturbing. It is much the same viewpoint attributed to some of those in power in our government no? At least the Vatican is going green. lol

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Nov 6 2007, 10:00 PM) [snapback]535987[/snapback]</div>

No, no one has shown that anyone in a decision making position in the government is making decisions based upon their religious view that the world is going to end soon. No one has shown that any of those people even believe in the end times stuff. I know that neither Bush nor Cheney believes it.

So is a misrepresentation like this really a lie?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Nov 7 2007, 08:31 PM) [snapback]536569[/snapback]</div>

There have been many articles that cite Reagan as believing in this stuff and there are direct quotes from him saying such things. I don't have the time to dig them up now but they are out there for sure. To assume that no one in a seat of power holds these views despite the vast numbers of religious zealots in this country is sort of naive no?

 

They don't care if the world ends, they know their term will.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Nov 7 2007, 09:55 PM) [snapback]536600[/snapback]</div>

Reagan may have believed it, but I don't think he is in the government today, is he? There actually was one member of his team that definitely DID believe it, but even he didn't use that belief as a reason for his views; he came close, but it was still no cigar.

I'm still waiting for any proof that non-dead people hold this view in government and that it has in any way shaped their goals for policy. This is nothing more than religious bigotry dressed up by the intellectual snobbery that is so rampant among those that hold skeptical views. It would have at least debating value if any of you knew even a tiny, teeny bit about the subject, but its evident you don't.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Nov 10 2007, 06:32 PM) [snapback]537845[/snapback]</div>

It's a moot point if you cannot furnish proof that none in power do not hold these values. I've stated that there have been people in the past that do and stated my position clearly. Are you holding fast to the opinion that none in power believe in rapture, armaggedon or feel that it doesn't matter what decisions they make since it's all in gods hands? I know too many people who do feel this way so to assume no one in our government feels this way is rather dediculous IMO but you are entitled to your views. I will assume the crown of bigot if by definition you mean I am intolerant of religious views that are placed upon my be those in power. Private views are private views. Do not subject me to rediculous notions of a god of which there is ZERO evidence of his existance. I WILL not be tolerant of such foolishness and I WILL lash out at it when I am burdened by it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Nov 10 2007, 06:32 PM) [snapback]537845[/snapback]</div>

You mean like this example?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Nov 10 2007, 09:56 AM) [snapback]537706[/snapback]</div>

Res ipsa loquitur.