Do you know what Honda Insight owners are talking about recently?

I have been sharing data with Ecomodder and MyHybridCar. At least there they understand the methodology and utility of the data. But I've stopped trying to visit 'other car' sites after a disappointing experience with the Jetta TDI and other sites.

I learned the Jetta TDI advocates preferred 'sweet sounding nonsense' rather than taking an engineering approach, one based in facts and data. The last straw was when I finally realized that the only way I'm going to get a graph of Jetta TDI 'mph vs MPG' is to rent one and do it myself. When I asked about renting a Jetta TDI, neither the Jetta TDI crowd nor the two dealers I contacted were able to help.

Mapping 'mph vs MPG' is such a basic, fundamental requirement along with establishing a baseline, I remain amazed that after four years, it has not become common practice. At least at Ecomodder and MyHybridCar there is some understanding of why this is important. Of course I enjoy sharing the graphs from where I gleam the raw data from the member postings. So I've given up on visiting Jetta TDI or other sites.

When advocates from other sites come here, I have no problem with sharing both the data and the methodology as long as this sharing also includes our community. We just don't have to put up with unsubstantiated 'opinion' when the facts and data are so easily assembled and presented in a clear and concise form. I just wish they would try the same approach.

Bob Wilson

 

You can easily find a very low mileage Honda Insight I, however you will pay the asking price when new ... @$18K, which in my opinion is too much for a car which is 4+ years old with extremely limited safety equipment and luxuries.
The Toyota Prius is a homerun. I see soooooo many of them where I live, both the Prius II and Prius III. I have yet to see another Honda Insight II anywhere in the Louisiana and Houston areas. I stopped by two(2) Toyota dealerships to look at the upper end Prius V, and the lots were empty!!!
I like the CVT, although it took a little to get use to. I like the Atkinson cycle and also feel the "Lean Burn" technology of the early 2000's would be hard to sell to the Feds monitoring emissions. I think the ultimate vehicle would be a Hybrid-Diesel. The company to keep an eye on is Volkswagen. I would love to have a single seater Diesel-Hybrid, since all of my communting is done by me, and me alone. It is absolutely a waste of space, size, weight and energy to move a vehicle down the highway with more seats than a commuting person needs, and emissions would not be a factor. How many of us carpool? I like the concept, but for most the idea becomes unfeasible.

 

Here's your new commuter then!

Are VentureOne's three wheels better than four? - CNET News

 

P.S.
When encountering a Prius owner on the road in either my Honda Insight I or II ... I always give them a thumbs up!!! Not because I think my car, or their car, is superior, but because we are both doing the RIGHT THING to do our part in conserving energy.
I find it shameful General Motors started the hybrid movement, but abandoned it to build huge fuel inefficient vehicles. General Motors has the technology to compete with both Honda and Toyota, but the management has failed to embrace the movement. Only now do they realize the error of their ways. However I do not think they could fairly compete due add costs of the labor unions which adds a couple of thousand dollars to the bottom line of each vehicle sold.

 

Amen to that although I prefer to introduce myself when we're parked. An old, bald headed man, grinning and waving in traffic can easily be taken the wrong way ... if you know what I mean.

GM and Chrysler worked hard to throw away their opportunities and like Cobasys (or whatever they are called now) throw away the PNGV patents and engineering that were worth its weight in gold. They dug themselves in a hole and never figured out that it was time to dig in a different direction. Only Ford had the good sense to see the writing on the wall and stay the course as much as they were able.

If you get a chance, mapping 'mph vs MPG' for the Insight would be very helpful along with some hill climb data. This can provide clues that may explain what happened on the Edmunds run and better still, help Honda Insight drivers achieve better, life-time MPG.

GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson

 

I refuse to argue quality/reliability with Insight owners. I have a Prius and chose it over the Civic Hybrid and Insight because, first, the Prius was a better fit for my needs and, second, I figured I would be happy with a Toyota being a "Honda Guy". Yes I considered myself a “Honda guy” because most of I have owned were Hondas and they were all outstanding. I put 200K miles in my previous 2003 Civic (5 year period) with only regular tire/oil change, never needed to do anything else. I would get close to 40 MPG in HWY trips with it, which is pretty amazing for a non-hybrid. My 2006 V6 Odyssey often rides with pretty heavy cargo weight and I get an average of 22-23MPG with city-driving-only, which is also pretty good for its size. Hondas are great cars, no question!

 

GM made the mistake of building what most buyers wanted. The roads are clogged with SUV's only because people wanted them, not because of anything else.

You guy's realize that a non hybrid should be capable of better highway mileage than a hybrid don't you.
I'd tell you that a Diesel hybrid just won't work because Diesels are compression (heat) ignition engines and warm up more slowly and don't run as well until warm. You've heard a cold Diesel run haven't you? A big way to get efficiency out of a Diesel is a turbo, turbos would have to have an electric oil pump to prevent coking in an on and off situation, I think. It could be done I'm sure, but it may be expensive.

 

That's quite good. Ours gets 19-20 mpg around town, cept in winter when it drops a couple mpg. On the plus side, I usually get 26-27 mpg highway and once got as high as 29.9mpg on a full tank with 100% highway miles.

Before the Prius, we had a 4400 lb. minivan and an AWD Subaru wagon. While both are a bit better than typical SUVs, neither were what I would call fuel efficient. When gas prices rose, I knew our vehicle choices were as big a part of the problem as anything else. I had to chuckle when friends who drive in stop and go traffic a few hours a day as the only occupant in their big truck-based SUV were outraged at the oil companies when gas was $4 a gallon. Hello.

 

Sure - take the hybrid components out of a Prius and leave the 67hp Atkinson engine and see what happens...

You'll get some great highway numbers, but still only marginally better than stock and lose a ton of power and city fuel economy.

 

Hey, my old I believe 1986 VW Golf Diesel got better than 50 MPG highway for example.
Never said there wouldn't be trade offs, just think it's funny that everybody wants to quote highway mileage of their hybrids, and I don't think that's the point / strength of a hybrid. Steady state running, all of that hybrid "stuff" is just dead weight. Stop and go is where they shine.
Some of what I believe are called "mild" hybrids do well on the highway, but the more advanced hybrids do as well in the city as they do on the highway.

 

1 If the Insight Gen I was such a great vehicle, why didn't Honda keep producing it?

2 You can't compare the Insight Gen I to the Prius Gen III. Compare the Insight Gen I to the Prius Gen I...and of course the Insight wins hands down there, as the Prius Gen I was a dog.

3 Why are you comparing a discontinued vehicle? Why not compare the Insight I, the Prius III and the all electric GM vehicle that mysteriously disappeared? It's not a fair comparison. Two of those cars are long gone...the Prius Gen III is here and now.

4 To the original poster, I got a Prius IV with the features I wanted...leather, heated seats, HomeLink mirror, carpeted floor mats. I did not get the NAV or solar panel sun roof. I don't think those few features that were "packaged" constitutes "loading up" on unnecessary extras.

We are all happy that all Insight owners are pleased with their purchase. Now, can we all move on? This topic has no resolution to it.

 

With 224,000 miles I think the Insight needs two time timing belt replacements. How much it would be for the timing belts? Oh yes, not sure how many time for Transmission belts in 224,000 miles??

I used to own (2) 1994 Honda Accord and 1996 Honda Civic...

 

You got to try another angle of attack on the Insight...

Like the HCH-2, the Insight has a timing chain.

Also, like the the HCH-2, the CVT belt is hardly an issue and many are checking in with 200K+ with no issues to report on this front.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

How long are the friction brake pads lasting in Insight or HCH-II? Compare to Prius, I would think the pads will wear out quicker due to 10-15kW regen limit.

Obviously, the Insight or HCH-II pads should last longer than a non-hybrid.

 

As on the Prius, it always depends on how it is driven.

Prius taxi drivers in my area get to replace their brake pads more often than many local Prius owners I know. However, At the tiny rate they are "being worn", I will never, ever have to replace my pads on the Prius or HCH-II

Although theoretically plausible but still burdened by an overly simplistic interpretation, the 10-15kwh argument is not the single determinant of regenerative induced friction effectiveness needed to reduce the use of the legacy hydraulic brakes on an IMA platform.
If you learn a bit more about the underlying architecture and its capabilities you'll definitely see why this is so.


Cheers;

MSantos

 

Care to explain what IMA would use to slow down the car (other than 10 to 15kW motor/generator)? Engine braking? I know Honda hybrids don't have the B gear. IMA triggers engine braking along with regen braking when the brake pedal is pressed?

 

The functional equivalent of the B setting is the "S" and "L" on the CVT equipped IMA's. These also lead to accelerated regen rates and higher deceleration rates.

The Motor Stator generator is one of the highest energy density motor generators in the world and the 10-15 KWh rating you often read about is a nominal rating that relates to the governed rate of electric assist. That is it.

However, the effective regenerative rate is electrically controlled and depends on several other factors and as discussed (with you) before, it depends on what the pack can take -- which is often much less than 80A -- and therefore much of the regen is often discarded on the account of this.

To put it in simple terms, the resistive effect used during deceleration is arbitrated by the PCM which in turn may delegate the proper CVT ratios and the cylinder deactivation mechanism to aid the electric motor especially when the battery pack is being thermally managed. The AC (if ON) will also switch on its belt driven half to aid.

Look, as long as you are not maxing out the regen display/gauge on either the HCH-II or Insight, the hydraulic braking will not be used at all until the car falls below 5-7 MPH. Period.
Fortunately, the 2010 Prius instrumentation now includes something similar in its HSI display which allows us to visually measure the amplitude of the regen pulse. The key in both metaphors is to watch this mimic and stay off the friction brakes by not maxing it.

With all this said, if we drive like Neanderthals then neither hybrid tech can prevent the use of friction braking.
Is one better than the other? Sure, the Prius is. But for a good driver, the practical difference is often non existent.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

Thanks. I do remember our discussion about the HV battery generation between Prius and Insight II. Basically Prius can regen 200V @ 100A while Insight II regen 100V @ 50A. Prius can capture about 4x the regen energy; it needs to since it is larger and heavier. This 80A you just mentioned, that's for the HCH-II right?

Anyway, the question wasn't which car is better. I have seen many Priuses with over 100k miles with minimal pads used. I have 105k and there is like 75% pad left. I drove pretty much the same way as my previous car (Celica) and I changed front pads at 67k miles.

I was wondering how HCH-II and the original Insight are doing with the brake pads. I am sure they would last longer than non-hybrid cars.