Disgruntled Real Electric Car Owner

i'll only have to stop once between here and florida!

 

I am diametrically opposed to your viewpoints. Reason: if charging was free, plentiful and easily available people would swamp the dealerships to buy EVs and BEVs. The country as a whole would benifits enormously. We could cut gasoline usage by maybe 90%. Your theory of paying for charging only adds to the negativity that people already have toward HV s and. BEV s.

 

Not to flame/disagree; as your post is mostly accurate...

While you can't run a pure Hybrid on solar/hydro/wind, you can run a PiP on these. I happen to live in a city that is only 5 miles across and do tons of short trips every day. My 11 miles range is adequate to allow me to run almost entirely on EV. I charge my PiP with solar panels installed on my roof, or a wind generator at a convenient free charge station nearby. I drive around 200 miles per week.

I didn't buy a Leaf because I didn't need the 70 miles range; nor the expensive battery required for this. I only needed around 10 miles. I realize I'm in rare circumstances for now; but urban densities are increasing, and people are trying to live closer to places they travel to.

On the rare occasions I need to take a highway trip; I can just buy a tank of gas instead of renting a gas car. So that seems to be keeping more ICE off the road as well.

 

Socialism doesn't work. There is no free lunch, and government is innately inefficient. Free enterprise always seeks efficiency. Free electricity will lead to inefficient electric cars. If there were a plethora of free charging stations, people would quit charging at home and government would recapture the cost with taxation--road or some monthly billing. Soon it would be cheaper to use gas again. Is that what you want? In the long run if everyone pays their own costs all the time, EV cars will justify themselves as the market will produce more efficient cars with better batteries. Keep the government out of it, be patient, and the market will drive efficiency and quality.

 

. I do agree with most of your points, to call free charging outright Socialism is a stretch. One very good point you made " soon it will be cheaper to buy gas again", that is one goal: lower demand. The main objective being to give the doubters a reason to go Electric. Anyway everything is being paid for by the taxpayer, either directly or indirectly. Yes there is no free lunch!

 

I can see his point. Most of the time when I plugin at a store/etc, it's mainly for "fun" and not for need whereas a Tesla/Leaf/Pure EV can get a lot more benefit. I wouldn't mind if they were able to contact me and ask for the EV spot. Perhaps a sticker on the charging door that said "If you really need to use the EV charging station, please txt my cell: xxx-xxx-xxxx.

 

That's factually inaccurate. I'm not going to comment on what's fair and proper, but the simple facts are that if you charge a PiP there are so many miles that won't be driven burning gasoline. A Leaf that cannot charge is not going to be burning gasoline getting where they are going. In other words, they're forced to wait instead of burning gas to avoid the wait. The larger benefit is in letting the hybrid charge so that it will not burn gas that would be burned if they were not allowed to charge.

 

How is free charging related to socialism?

That is patently false.

Assuming there's a benefit to making inefficient cars. If there's no financial benefit, there's no reason to do so.

Or raise fuel taxes which would have the double benefit of encouraging electric vehicles and discouraging gasoline consumption.

That's a pretty long jump. How do you get here from there?

In the long run, we're all dead.

Let's not forget that government is the reason the PiP exists in the first place.

 

Exactly right, with our aging electrical grid, lack of charging stations national infrastructure, and where battery technology currently stands, the Plugin Hybrid is a practical bridge while reducing fuel and emissions. Going further in factoring in emergency situations, it's just not comfortable if you had a prolonged power outage, earthquake, floods or fire and weren't sure if you had the capability to drive away. Although welcoming more EV range in our PIPs in the future, I would still prefer a Plugin Hybrid.

 

Boy, you're not going to like a bracing dose of the reality on the street.

Sure, it's as socialist as cafe WiFi and convention-center USB charging.

The "free market" (literally, one fee for one service) would rapidly converge to one of two solutions: One penny less than gas, or No public charging at all.

1) Based on conventional macroeconomic wisdom, sites should mark up electricity until it's one penny less than gas. We would then all switch, to save that one penny. The gasoline chain would then collapse. This is the 'silver bullet' model, and like all silver bullets, it requires multiple, unrealistic assumptions like total liquidity with no switching penalties. And yet, there are charging sites at $2.00/hour, working off this model. Empty charging sites.

2) Based on the fee-for-service model, public charging doesn't work at all, and shouldn't even exist. Daytime charging from weatherized, vandal-resistant sites can never compete with the plastic boxes in our garages, using nighttime power. Can't compete on installation cost (sealed metal > plastic box), can't compete on operating cost (grid demand fees, and outdoor repair/replacement).

And yet, public charging does exist, by numerous other models (including free):

A) Ads. Volta's charging sites are also giant billboards; EV owners are a coveted demographic. Just like Facebook, Gmail, and this site you're on right now.

B) Self-ads (the Tesla model). Tesla claims the next quarter should reach profitability. At least, profitability with government subsidies!

C) Cross-"ads" (the membership-card model). Blink, Chargepoint, SemaConnect, etc. allow free charging (in consultation with the actual site proprietor) partly because they're still gathering marketing data on... a coveted demographic.

D) One more amenity. Nice hotels, restaurants, etc. offer free electricity just like they offer bathrooms instead of coin-op stalls: so you won't take off for some other bathroom (including your own). Think janitors are free?

Overall, there are multiple examples of "free" products and services, especially one as cheap as electricity. Eric S. Raymond supports free software and liberty, via the above models and others:
The Cathedral & the Bazaar (paperback): Musings on Linux and Open Source by an Accidental Revolutionary

And yet you went ahead and bought one... technically, an inefficient EV, as EVs go. Free electricity technically exists now; spot rates frequently go zero or even negative overnight. Pedantic, I know. But you had to go and say "innately," "always," "will lead to" and "will produce." So, you stay up nights, monitoring spot rates with your hand ready by the outlet?

In 'three to five years'? Sure. That's the electronics equivalent of "and then a miracle happens." The real subsidy is second-mover advantage, as late entrants "borrow" the R&D and suppliers of the innovators. Hence, R&D is driven down by the free market, and innovation is slowed by reliance on existing supply chains. But, hey, patience is free. And still free... and still...[/quote]

 

The consequences of not being able to charge a Plug-In Prius, vs a Leaf, are night-and-day different. A dead Leaf is going to mean a tow, incredible incovenience and expense. A PIP sans charge, no big deal.

 

All these threads about EV purists who hate on Plug-in Hybrids.. I wonder.. what about if a Tesla is plugged in at a public charging spot? Should he/she not have plugged in because a Leaf needs it more than a Tesla? But if a Tesla runs out of electricity, it too would need a tow. What about if its a new 2013 Leaf versus a 2011 Leaf with a crappy battery. Should the 2013 with more range and a fresh pack not have plugged in? Does the 2011 Leaf owner hate the 2013 Leaf owner too?

Hmm.. I wonder if people with handicap/disabled plates/placards have these issues too.. maybe the guy with a broken ankle on crutches shouldn't be using the spot in case someone in a wheelchair might need it.

 

Well, no one can ever agree or disagree 100% on something so subjective, but...

Tom Moloughney aided others after Hurricane Sandy... in his BMW ActiveE. His ability to buy a generator for home, and find other places as necessary within his >80 mile range (such as his workplace chargers), apparently beats your ability to stretch 17 miles into >18 miles after a gas emergency. So the Chevy Volt would appear to be the future, by your own implication.

ActiveE Mobility: Driving an Electric BMW 1-Series: Disaster Relief
Assessing Sandy: Are Electric Cars A Better Bet In Emergencies?

 

Generally

I don't think there is any "hate". It is simply a matter of practicality.
And yes, I think 'free' chargers are part of the problem.
When sites are crowded, if I am driving either of my plug in cars, I won't take up a charging spot unless I also have a notice/card letting someone who needs the charge contact me.
If there is one parachute on a plane, and the plane is not crashing, I'll let the guy that is jumping out have it;-)

But when the chargers are free, I am guessing you will very often have people charging at them that would not normally.

In my opinion, the card left on the OP's car was rude, but so was the OP in taking up a spot when someone else had greater need of it.

 

If they arrive at the same time, they have a little chat. Two fellow EV'ers should come to a civil conclusion.

However, charging time is long enough that one EV enthusiast may be gone. Hence, the ones that think ahead leave a note in their glass with 'you can unplug me at ___', or their phone number or email address. Social networks like Plugshare.com or Recargo.com also have this capability.

I'm fortunate that I pretty much always use Level 1, when I'm using a public site at all. So far no one's caused contention over "just" a Level 1.

Edit: Just like Zythyrn!

 

Generally, yes, I would like to agree with you. But I think as more and more EVs/PHEVs get on the road and these types of situations arise, the "hate" will become much more "visible". When I first got my PiP over a year ago, I was all excited about the prospects of public charging.. until I read comments like these on Plugshare:

These are just a couple comments from 2 places near me. The comments/reviews sections for some hotly contested spots have become something of a war of words. Its only a matter of time before we see a post in the forum that says something like "my car was vandalized at a Chargepoint station, I wonder why?".

But keep in mind, the OP said the 2nd spot was open. Hence my question about the handicapped spaces.. who determines "greater need"? All these comments directed towards the Volt and PiP.. but what if the Volt/PiP doesnt have any gas in the car and needs the charge to get to a gas station? Is it the PHEV's owner's fault that they drove past their gas+EV range? Oh wait ..

I agree with the use of the card on the dash or whatever, "call if you need to charge" thing.. that's great. But keep in mind, you're talking about people who, in my opinion, feel they are entitled to these spots for their own various reasons. If I parked in a spot that said "Reserved for the CEO" and left a note on the car to call me if he/she needs the spot.. I'm pretty sure he/she would be really upset he had to call me and wait for me to move my car.

One last Plugshare comment..

 

No doubt as more people buy these cars there will be more unreasonable people. Goes with the territory.
But I have to tell you, these types of incidents will drop almost completely if they simply start charging for the spots/charges.

 

kaboom goes this thread...

 

The problem is there is nowhere to stop. Everyone knows only 2 places exist. California and Florida, everythign else is just something to look out the window at when you fly from one to the other.